ATproto might not be a platform exactly, but it is an ecosystem. Programming language ecosystems don't really die but they do fade sometimes.
I think the issue with publishing via a PDS is that you're basically letting anyone republish on their own website. For comments that makes a lot of sense since they can show up under articles. But for a blog? Maybe it would be better to keep your database of articles offline, publish it to your own website, and not replicate it to the world? Instead, send a ATproto post for each article with a link to your website.
I mean, that is the status quo of everything published anywhere on the internet today, using any protocol, and is why copyright exists. I'm not sure how ATProto changes that equation, aside from providing additional mechanisms for authorized republication?
Not a whole lot but there is at least robots.txt and scraper blocking like Cloudflare does. At least there are norms and copyright law. What are the norms for serving content from someone else's PDS? I think not asking permission is the default?
The article isn't resolving, so I can't speak to what it exactly says.
However, the question isn't "on your own domain vs not," it's "how you publish." Blog networks are popular because most people do not have the technical ability to spin up a server, buy a domain, and point it at it.
Why an atproto based solution instead of Medium or whatever? Because then you actually own your own data. And that also doesn't preclude it ending up on your own domain in the end anyway, because it's your data.
I’m looking at the site and right at the beginning it says:
> Standard.site provides shared lexicons for long-form publishing on AT Protocol. Making content easier to discover, index, and move across the ATmosphere.
Which part of these required a new protocol and couldn’t be built before @at existed? Seems to me we’re reinventing the wheel for I’m not entirely sure which benefit. But maybe someone who’s more into this part of the web can educate me on this.
> Which part of these required a new protocol and couldn’t be built before @at existed? Seems to me we’re reinventing the wheel for I’m not entirely sure which benefit.
The atproto folks went and categorized all of the other attempts to do this at the time. (They even had some I hadn't heard of!)
All of them make various tradeoffs. None of them were the set of tradeoffs the team wanted. So they needed to make some new things. That's really the core of it.
My sibling has one of the largest and most specific things, but this is the underlying reason.
I understand I’m behind in terminology in this space and figured that there at least would’ve been a post to make its way through HN that would explain what the “Atmosphere” is. Apparently this submission was supposed to be that (5 days ago) but it doesn’t define the concept.
> The "Atmosphere" is the term we use to describe the ecosystem around the AT Protocol.
I think that ATProto is going to win against other decentralized/‘fediverse' protocols in the long run. Bluesky? Maybe not. But I am impressed by the look of other platforms like Leaflet and that one that’s supposed to be an alternative to GitHub or something like that. [1]
I can’t speak on the tech behind the protocol itself but as far as marketing is considered it’s in the lead in my opinion. ActivityPub seems too gangly and Nostr is the worst—as in 'worse is better’—and in a way I’m fond of it because of that.
The planning behind ATProto appears to be far more coordinated than the other two. Despite being the senior of the three, ActivityPub is still going through inter-platform drama (e.g., the Instagram clone that was recently condemned for not handling text-only posts...like an Instagram clone should) and I get the feeling that the mind behind Nostr can care less about coordinating. I look at it more like a toolkit to build a protocol out of than a single one akin to the other two. [2]
[1]: This is my first look at OffPrint. It looks too much like Substack. I hate it. But I figure that the beautiful thing is that in theory I can use Leaflet and you can use OffPrint and I guess our writing is all in the same...atmosphere. Hah.
[2]: Similar to another web project that I’m fond of, Datastar.
AT is not yours - it belongs to Blue Sky pbc. You can link your own domain to it, but the user interface belongs to Blue Sky and they will block you if they want.
This is, like, the entire problem ATProto is designed to solve.
Sure, Bluesky can block you from showing up in Bluesky the application. But if they do, you can still host your own content (as is being done here) or access it via alternative apps (like Blacksky).
This is like saying that "RSS isn't yours because Google Reader can block you."
ATproto might not be a platform exactly, but it is an ecosystem. Programming language ecosystems don't really die but they do fade sometimes.
I think the issue with publishing via a PDS is that you're basically letting anyone republish on their own website. For comments that makes a lot of sense since they can show up under articles. But for a blog? Maybe it would be better to keep your database of articles offline, publish it to your own website, and not replicate it to the world? Instead, send a ATproto post for each article with a link to your website.
What's the downside of it being replicated and distributed?
It's got a digital signature, which can verify that it comes from you and is unaltered.
They could sell their advertising instead of yours :-)
I don't see a digital signature helping? Digital signatures can be stripped.
I mean, that is the status quo of everything published anywhere on the internet today, using any protocol, and is why copyright exists. I'm not sure how ATProto changes that equation, aside from providing additional mechanisms for authorized republication?
Not a whole lot but there is at least robots.txt and scraper blocking like Cloudflare does. At least there are norms and copyright law. What are the norms for serving content from someone else's PDS? I think not asking permission is the default?
Why would you do that vs just publishing on your own domain?
The article isn't resolving, so I can't speak to what it exactly says.
However, the question isn't "on your own domain vs not," it's "how you publish." Blog networks are popular because most people do not have the technical ability to spin up a server, buy a domain, and point it at it.
Why an atproto based solution instead of Medium or whatever? Because then you actually own your own data. And that also doesn't preclude it ending up on your own domain in the end anyway, because it's your data.
This ATproto astroturfing is becoming a bit ridiculous.
The three main publishing platforms are working together
https://standard.site/
ATProto and the ATmosphere are different
I’m looking at the site and right at the beginning it says:
> Standard.site provides shared lexicons for long-form publishing on AT Protocol. Making content easier to discover, index, and move across the ATmosphere.
Which part of these required a new protocol and couldn’t be built before @at existed? Seems to me we’re reinventing the wheel for I’m not entirely sure which benefit. But maybe someone who’s more into this part of the web can educate me on this.
> Which part of these required a new protocol and couldn’t be built before @at existed? Seems to me we’re reinventing the wheel for I’m not entirely sure which benefit.
The atproto folks went and categorized all of the other attempts to do this at the time. (They even had some I hadn't heard of!)
All of them make various tradeoffs. None of them were the set of tradeoffs the team wanted. So they needed to make some new things. That's really the core of it.
My sibling has one of the largest and most specific things, but this is the underlying reason.
One answer is right under Introduction:
> Content portability
> Users move between hosts without losing their content, audience, or metadata.
God forbid that technologists are enthusiastic about a technology.
Such things never happen, least of all here, on Hacker News.
ATproturfing is that correct term for it.
(yes very proud of myself for this )
I understand I’m behind in terminology in this space and figured that there at least would’ve been a post to make its way through HN that would explain what the “Atmosphere” is. Apparently this submission was supposed to be that (5 days ago) but it doesn’t define the concept.
> The "Atmosphere" is the term we use to describe the ecosystem around the AT Protocol.
— <https://atproto.com/guides/glossary#atmosphere> (Why on earth is the glossary not alphabetized by the way?)
I think that ATProto is going to win against other decentralized/‘fediverse' protocols in the long run. Bluesky? Maybe not. But I am impressed by the look of other platforms like Leaflet and that one that’s supposed to be an alternative to GitHub or something like that. [1]
I can’t speak on the tech behind the protocol itself but as far as marketing is considered it’s in the lead in my opinion. ActivityPub seems too gangly and Nostr is the worst—as in 'worse is better’—and in a way I’m fond of it because of that.
The planning behind ATProto appears to be far more coordinated than the other two. Despite being the senior of the three, ActivityPub is still going through inter-platform drama (e.g., the Instagram clone that was recently condemned for not handling text-only posts...like an Instagram clone should) and I get the feeling that the mind behind Nostr can care less about coordinating. I look at it more like a toolkit to build a protocol out of than a single one akin to the other two. [2]
[1]: This is my first look at OffPrint. It looks too much like Substack. I hate it. But I figure that the beautiful thing is that in theory I can use Leaflet and you can use OffPrint and I guess our writing is all in the same...atmosphere. Hah.
[2]: Similar to another web project that I’m fond of, Datastar.
Herman characterises this as the third distillation: sourcing mass-media news.
AT is not yours - it belongs to Blue Sky pbc. You can link your own domain to it, but the user interface belongs to Blue Sky and they will block you if they want.
This is, like, the entire problem ATProto is designed to solve.
Sure, Bluesky can block you from showing up in Bluesky the application. But if they do, you can still host your own content (as is being done here) or access it via alternative apps (like Blacksky).
This is like saying that "RSS isn't yours because Google Reader can block you."
This article has nothing to do with the Bluesky lexicon or with the bsky.app AppView.
What does “they will block you” even mean: this article is talking about hosting your data on your PDS and presenting it on your domain.