> he's showing how placing different objects on the resonators changes their tone
"Have you ever thought re-patching your modular synth was too easy? Here, now your drum machine can be even harder to recreate the sound you liked last week!"
A joke, but was immediately what jumped out as scary. Not gonna lie, looks like a fun machine, but for that money, I tend to buy stuff I can use and recall old patches with. Although except for the modular obviously :/
What an insightful comment. I've always considered art as something that can't be recreated, as it involves the state of mind the creator was at the time of creating it. I would worry no more about recreating a sound on this synth as I would recreating the exact pitch of an acoustic guitar I made last year.
Your take is obviously a valid one though. I just find it infinitely interesting how there can be so many valid viewpoints about something like this.
That is how many synth users feel as well, that they don't need presets because they'll just create a new sound. Neither approach is invalid as there is no right or wrong way to be creative.
I'm not a professional musician but making patches is something I never knew was fun until I tried it and it immediately became my favorite musical activity. Sitting down with my Minilogue XD and spending and evening just making an ephemeral 16 step sequence is a really great recreation activity that I'd recommend for anyone.
As I'm a software engineer I try to avoid software tools for recreation but it's getting harder and harder and vcv-rack is even on nix package manager. I think I might have to break my rule just this once - thanks!
As a counter curse I recommend strudel.cc back at you :)
I think it’s one of the best pieces of software in existence and I don’t say that lightly. In a perfect world we’d have a magic of box of every modular component to build and rebuild to tinker with the physical controls but in lieu of magic vcv rack plus a midi controller is the next best thing
Strudel is very cool. Possibilities are endless with music tools
I'd say "meh" to VCVRack. Just like you, I got into music production to get away from the computer so I avoid software when I can, I basically only have hardware for production, so I can use my hands and not stare at screens, only do mastering in a DAW.
Like you, many people along the years been telling me that I'll love modular synths, and I should try it out VCVRack to get a taste. So I did, maybe once or twice a year. It never felt fun for me, even one bit. Never sure why.
Then at some point I borrow my friend's modular setup as he was going to play in places where he couldn't bring it, and I finally understood what's so fun about it. The hardware is what makes it fun and relaxing for me, not the concepts themselves, and seemingly for me, they don't translate into the digital realm.
I guess the point is: I'm kind of similar to you and I couldn't get into VCVRack but actual real modular synths are fun as hell. Maybe it's the same for you, so don't lose hope if VCVRack ends up not feeling fun :)
Personally I swing both ways. I love to just with, say, a basic sawtooth wave (honestly that, a little filter, and a basic ADSR gets you
To many of the most iconic sounds of the 70s), but I do like presets so when I land in something really special I can snapshot it.
There are forms of art where the "meta" is that the artists are attempting to recreate something exactly the same each time, but in doing so there is always something different (theater, live music, etc). Some art leans towards perfection in recreation and some leans towards the unique.
You nailed it. Cool idea. Nice design. Great demo. Fun toy.
I'm sure I'd have a good time playing with it for an afternoon and come up with some sounds I like. And, in principle, I'm all for more ways to create music existing - especially ones which are interactive and tactile. But the reality is, if I bought this device it would end up spending most of its time in the basement graveyard with all the other cool tools that are too narrow, too big, too hard to interface, store/recall patches, etc.
I decided several years ago to refocus on a stack that's purely microphone (or other a/d converted input) + MIDI controllers to a DAW driving infinite layers of internal real-time digital synthesis, analog modeling and effects plug-ins. There are fabulously expressive MPE (MIDI Polyphonic Expression) controllers now which can capture every nuance of input my hands, feet and breath could ever provide. As you highlighted, the feeling that creating in a digital audio workstation is "too easy" or maybe somehow 'soulless' - is all in my head. That lurking suspicion analog circuitry or electro-mechanical waveforms are more authentic or pure is just magical thinking.
Always believing that the next new box's cool-looking tactile input, novel interaction model or unique set of opinionated constraints will unleash my creativity - is just getting in the way of actually sitting down and making myself create with all the insanely powerful, wildly creative, infinitely flexible, hyper-productive digital tools I already have. Being able to save and recall entire racks worth of patching at the press of a button isn't soulless or limiting - unless I let it be. Feeling like I need just-one-more new device to inspire me with its defaults or constrain me with its limits - is the limiting constraint I finally realized was holding me back.
I used to worry about recall but eventually realised I made more and more interesting music when I treated my gear like a regular musical instrument and just recorded myself playing to audio. Perfect recall put me in a brain loop of endless tweaking that didn’t actually benefit the music at all, it would all just end up sounding overthought. Plus I had more fun doing it. This was a bit of a revelation for me. Obviously, whatever works for you works for you, but just a counterpoint.
Of course, that's what really matters most. I do appreciate that the infinite possibilities, permutations and even extreme convenience all-in-one digital integration provides can become a downside. It really depends on personal style, preferences and goals.
Confronted by all that boundless possibility, I have sometimes found myself freezing up with 'possibility agoraphobia' or just rat-holing into the tweak-cycling you describe. Ultimately, I figured out I have to enforce some discipline on myself - which felt a bit odd since I'm strictly doing this for fun. My realization was that the needed discipline can either be embedded in the tools or style I choose or I can choose to enforce it on myself - which is its own burden. Every approach has its benefits and costs. No free lunch :-).
In a broad sense, I suspect any of the different approaches (all acoustic, analog, digital or some hybrid) represent sweet-spots that balance latitude and constraints in different ways. All that truly matters is finding one that meets us where we are in the moment and feeds our soul.
Yeah, I think a bit of difference gives it a bit more character, fully agree. Recall is more about being in the transition between two different songs when performing, and needing to get to a start point that works with what you're transitioning to. For jamming, it's fun to spend 2-3 minutes finding a sound that works, but for performance or recording, it gets really tiresome to manually patch 20 cables on the fly.
But as you say, no right or wrong, we all do things under different circumstances and contexts, and what works for someone is wrong for another, and all that :)
> Feeling like I need just-one-more new device to inspire me with its defaults or constrain me with its limits - is the limiting constraint I finally realized was holding me back.
You can change the actual resonator shape (it says it comes with 3 different shapes) to affect their sound. Like actually unscrew them and screw different ones on. Since this is just a piece of metal I see endless hacking opportunities here.
Looks really interesting, no doubt. But I also see that you can change the sound by just placing objects on top of the resonators, so I'm guessing if I was jamming with that, I'd try placing my hand, foot, head and a bunch of other stuff on top of the resonators. Probably find some neat sounds.
Then next week I'm gonna have zero ideas about how to recreate it again :P Already suffering with this with the modular synth, and those are just cables in specific holes.
Korg satisfies both ends of this spectrum in its different products. The Microkorg 2 is the update of its record-setting best-seller built around "here is a giant preset knob that has sounds organized by genre". You can program a Microkorg and it does have plenty of depth, but the general idea of it is to be a go-to "recall" box for the quintessential synth sounds.
While the feature is useful, in some senses it's not terribly important to have a sound be exact, because you're giving a performance to the circumstance. Acoustic instruments react to temperature and humidity and all of that - it worked fine for thousands of years of music.
It's basically every synth Korg ever made up to around 2005 (about 20 in all) as software plug-ins capable of playing the original presets and patches. It even includes all the presets and optional patch library cards and expansions Korg ever offered for each (often worth more than the synth itself).
Some of the greatest albums of all time (and several of my personal favorites) were primarily made with these. And they take zero space, need no maintenance and patch instantly into all my other gear with no ground loops, sampling hiss or MIDI timing issues.
And the minilogue scratches the "gazillion knobs and mostly true analog poly synth" for a pretty unbeatable price. Anything else around the same price is either mono only, or digital.
Just a bit later in the video he shows using his finger to change the pitch of the resonator on the right as well. I'm often a bit sceptical of "gimmicky" instruments (what's that synth with all the rotors inside that makes a noise a bit like a vacuum cleaner when you use it? but, I have to say, the Phase 8 does sound really cool and, just as important, looks really fun to use as well.
Be interested to see how long it takes before Florian gets his hands on one to review for Bad Gear though.
That’s the one, yes - thank you! Looks super cool but is rather impractical, and I seem to remember a review - might even have been Audiopilz - suggesting that you could get similar sounds out of plenty of other synths.
Yeah, it's not just the novelty aspect, I genuinely like how it sounds and how it opens up new ways to be creative with sound making. I'd really like to hear what Radiohead or Bjork would make with something like that.
It just another way to do something that a lot of these tone generators can do already, i'm not seeing the appeal other than to have some quick fun with sounds.
What ammuses me is that the little Korg Volcas synced up in the demo can be found really cheaply if you look around. They were low cost units to begin with and are now old enough to be considered classic equipment so there are loads on the market.
The Volca Drum being used is excellent at making all kinds or resonant, spriny noises with its wave guide effects if that's what you're looking for. It's a very distinct, unique sounding little box.
Volcas in general are an affordable way to get started with electronic music making. Cheap enough and easy enough to sell if you change your mind.
Another "physical modeling synthesizer" which I've been looking at for the last few weeks (https://www.ericasynths.lv/steampipe-3153/) goes for €990, which is more or less the same as the phase8, when you consider the currency difference.
Edit: Actually, seems phase8 will be slightly cheaper, my local (Spain) shops seems to sell it for around €950.
Years ago I used to make things like this, I discovered sites like 120 years of Electronic Music[0] and the Experimental Musical Instruments Journal[1] which my local library bizarrely had and went to town. Spent a lot of time digging through the local surplus shop that was a goldmine for cheap stuff for such things. The last project I started in on was a tuning fork organ, made my own tuning forks and coils and pickups to drive them, had big dreams with it but only ended up making about an octave worth, which I had great fun with. Most of these random instruments I controlled with my old Arp Odyssey which I even added CV outs for the LFO/Envelopes so I could modulate them and ran the output into the filter input, fun times.
I might buy this, not really my interest these days but it really looks like great fun.
Doesn't every musician with money have this problem? Every rockstar owns like 50 guitars. And they don' like to admit they're just collecting. They always got some story about why they need to buy the nth guitar that's missing from all the other tens of guitars they already own.
Almost all of them own instruments and gear they'll touch once and never do anything meaningful with ever again. Then it becomes a fixture on their walls or den.
It all seems wasteful.
But still, by rich people standards, it seems cheaper than other things like buying a huge boat.
Yeah I mean many people with disposable income seems to be doing this, it's just that the music community has a name for it, GAS, and it's a bit of a meme in the community.
I have a friend who seemingly collects mechanical keyboards. He keeps saying he needs them for various purposes, but always seems to be using the latest one, then the old ones go up on a shelf and sit there.
Another friend is obsessed with football, so he has a bunch of shoes, also "depending on the grass/ground" yet keeps using 1 or 2 the most, the others seems to in some cases be "collectors items" and never gets used.
Another friend is a avid golfer, literally has a wall in the garage with clubs, but seems to mostly stick with the clubs they have in their go-to bag.
I'm sure I could come up with more examples, it just seems pervasive among all people who can spend money on their hobbies.
I have a friend who plays tennis. He literally has like 100 tennis balls, all neatly packed and sorted on a shelf. Of course, all you need for a tennis match is like 3-4, since more won't fit in the pockets anyway.
If you're practicing your serve alone it's convenient to have a lot of tennis balls. It's quicker to gather all the balls in a big batch than individually.
I don't currently have any physical instruments while I have had quite a collection and nice studio in the past.
I think it comes down to the fact that it is fun collecting gear and a lot easier than actually making music. Making music is really hard.
I also don't think it even cost me $2k when it was all said and done with all the gear I bought. So much of the gear held its value and one piece of gear I had I sold for 3x what I bought it for so that paid for so much depreciation on gear that didn't hold its value.
Some gear heads I know have money to burn but others just have their savings in gear instead of a savings account at the bank.
Or any community that involves conspicuous consumption. There's always what feels like a majority of people who collect/buy/show off more than they use things
and that's fine in some sense if you're honest about what you're doing.
I have at least one guitar that I rarely play but I keep because I consider it a work of art and a collectible. But, I have others which are workhorses and I play daily.
It gets awkward when collecting is presented as a way to be a better musician, which is clearly false.
It also percolates into reviews, too. When a nontrivial fraction of the community is buying dreams and is about collecting as opposed to using whatever it is, some reviewers style their content towards that crowd and overlook issues or benefits that pop up when actually using the gear.
I don't have a problem with collecting, but I'd love for the distinction to be more upfront.
On that note I absolutely love Matt Johnson (Jamiroquai)'s youtube channel because you can tell he likes gear but spends a huge amount of time actually playing it and making his own patches. So much of the review market is just GAS-inducing paid promo stuff.
It's kind of easy to detect though. I usually read three/four paragraphs before I realize that the person reviewing doesn't actually make music and doesn't consider the music making parts of the hardware, and instead focuses on very generic stuff that basically the manufacturer handed to them and said "make sure this is included".
I think that’s actually pretty different. In this case the tines are being electronically “plucked” - in the kalimba + pickups case you have to do all the plucking
Actually you can change the keys up so much you can do microtonal scales on it, but at the end of the day its a metallaphone so not likely to ever be the only piece of gear you'd want to use, you'd want to mix this with other gear to make a full sound.
“Essentially” in the sense you can’t really change the 8 frequencies you have to choose from quickly. Kinda impractical to do if you wanna play a set that spans different keys/tonalities.
Reminds me of the original Korg Wavedrum from the 90s, which was by far the best e-drum ever, you can lightly scratch it or hit it with a strong stick, endless tone and amplitude possibilities.
So this is a synth in which a bank of oscillators use physically vibrating elements. From there, things proceed conventionally?
It reminds me of systems in the "Sustainiac" family for generating unlimited sustain in an electric guitar, at any volume. There is a powered circuit which drives feedback into the string through a coil ("reverse pickup"). Typically the reverse pickup is in the neck position. So effectively the vibrating string becomes part of an oscillator circuit.
We can imagine a harp like instrument (or koto) with multiple steel strings, oscillating under a Sustainiac-like pickup feeedback system, and used as the basis for synthesis.
It looks as if the reeds in the Korg instrument might work similarly.
This video is nice because it talks about the feel of the Sustainiac: how it "kicks in" and you feel the vibration swell just when you fret a note with your left hand.
the 'light pedal' by gamechangeraudio would pair well with this. it uses a real spring inside the pedal to create an analog spring reverb. theres also some sort of laser used as well since the spring isnt long enough
there is also their 'motor pedal' which uses a spinning motor similar to one that would be found in a drone, and then a laser again or something optical to pick up the movement and turn it into a digital signal.
they actually have a synth that uses 8 of these motors to generate the sounds/voices
Motors spinning shafts that produce signals is a very old technique, dating back to the Telharmonium [1897], whose tonewheel technique was also used in Hammond organs [1935].
Speaking of spring reverbs: you can use a cheap piezo transducer mounted on the tremolo springs of an electric guitar as a passive reverb. Waylon MacPherson demonstrates this in his YT channel: it actually sounds good!
I'm not being dismissive when I say there isn't anything super innovative, within the individual components that make up this synth, but this is conceptually an electric tine piano with sound processing circuitry.
That's sick,and I want it. I also want a zither-style stringed version and one with bells
They must be more proud about the look of it than how it sounds because I can't find any sound demo on the page. Plenty of pictures though. I am gonna make a Photoshop alternative and on the product page I am only gonna have a lot of sounds of me farting.
Seems like the bars are just there to produce the (almost) sine wave oscillation part of the synth which is neat I guess but it just seems like a gimmick if I am being totally honest. I still respect them trying new ideas though.
I don't think it even sounds that interesting. Especially if you have ever used the various physical modeling ensembles in Reaktor. It isn't even close to some of those.
It’s interesting comparing the enthusiasm I see in this thread compared to the more jaded responses I’ve seen in r/synthesizers
I think it looks cool and fun. Wish my workflow and time could accommodate it right now but they can’t. I’m really curious to hear what people who spend time with it are able to do.
Maybe i'm not fully grasping how it works, but i don't really see the acoustic part, aren't the resonators just turning the steel vibrations into an electric signal via coils in the same way an electric guitar works? basically what's the advantage of this vs plugin an electric guitar as a signal input to an analog synth?
Guitar strings do not generate sound, unless plucked. However there are devices like the Sustaniac and the short-lived Moog guitar that do use electromagnets to induce vibrations in the strings. So you could compare this to the Sustaniac.
They have visible pickups, which presumably have a permanent magnet core.
But how are the resonators getting 'plucked'? Is it the same electromagnet as the pickup or a separate one? I can't imagine those two modes would work well. (i.e. dumping current across the coil would make the magnet want to escape)
Perhaps there's a field coil instead of a permanent magnet?
My guess is that it uses magnetic fields to resonate the bars (kinda like an ebow). Any plucking types sounds are probably done with filter/envelopes within the electronics.
Physical hardware is fun, sounds better (when analog or acoustic) but I can't go back after a long time with a streamlined VST-based workflow. For playing without a computer, I simply use romplers for the convenience. So, while I have a gut desire for this gear, I won't ever actually buy it...
Unfortunately, I definitely disagree with the "sounds better" argument, particularly for this instrument. I do own a vibraphone, and happen to also design synthesizers, and I did not find the Phase8 sound to be compelling. One of the appeals of a synthesizer is its spectral plasticity, and the output of the Phase8 relies too heavily on the sonic characteristics of the resonator medium. My vibraphone definitely suffers from this, and has the cultural baggage of being a recognizable instrument, but it is a much more pleasing sameness than the Phase8.
I was wondering to myself why korg berlin exists. Like i would be shocked if they sell enough of these to pay for the preceding five years of rent much less the salaries. Is it genuinely moonshot r&d, like a bell labs or xerox parc? Is it just to prevent Takahashi from starting a competitor? Something else? Whichever reason, i’m glad it exists… it just feels improbable.
Phase 8 is a high margin collectible and brand promotion device. Korg may not make their money back from direct sales - although I wouldn't be surprised if they did - but likely there would be enough of a halo effect to make it worthwhile.
I expect this will turn into a small range of variations with strings, tubes, and so on.
But it's also part of a cultural trend moving back from do-it-all software products to tactile collectibles with a simple, legible purpose. Vinyl started that, and I think this is a kind of musical take on the idea that something mechanical has more presence and authority than software.
Sonically I don't think that's true at all, but it's a comprehensible marketing pitch.
Agreed, its existence is implausible, but I assume they're consulting on other projects for Korg Japan in addition to developing Phase8 and other prototypes. They're undoubtedly taking a loss (despite low European salaries) but their contributions across the board could also scale non-linearly.
I also imagine that it's the olive branch that brought Takahashi back to the company after he left. He brought Korg back from the dead and they were probably and rightfully desperate to find a way to retain their top performer.
It's honestly incredible they're bringing this to market! This style of incubator tends to work on a lofty goal and the research and ideas explored on the way trickle down into other parts of the company and find their way into more accessible products. Really similar in theory to the over the top concept cars manufacturers build that never see the light of day.
Wow, this is really innovative. It really takes "physical modeling" synths to another, more literal level. Would love to have been a fly on the wall when the idea was proposed.
This + an Ekdahl Moisturizer would be an interesting pairing.
cool, but doesn't sound that great when you close your eyes and just listen. Other synths beat this hands down especially at > $1000, and can easily bring in the physical world already, including live workflows. The issue is when we get into the physical analogue world, craftsmanship, materials, shape, often age, and of course the varied kinetic interactions with the sound solicitor, bring depth and richness which no little electrically-excited xylophone will ever get anywhere close to.
Looks really neat. I wish I had one, I am curious but it just sounds like an FM to me. In the demos I hear very decayed percussive FM sounds or mellow bell like FM sounds.
It looks most similar to a Rhodes piano-type electromechanical keyboard, where tuned metal elements are somehow actuated and then sonified with a guitar pickup.
Unlikely theres any FM which would require independently digitizing each of the resonators and just generally a lot of complexity that doesnt seem warranted.
The similarity in timbre isn't coincidental though -- FM is noted for its ability to emulate complex timbres like bells/metallic tones (such as electric pianos) that are challenging for more traditional subtractive synthesis architectures.
I agree. I have a Nord Drum 3P that’s FM percussion modeling with drum pads. I can get close to these sounds and a lot more stuff that bends when you hit the pad harder. About half the price on Reverb. The Phase 8 is a cool idea.
Yeah as far as I can tell the bars are just producing sine waves and everything else is done within the electronics, interesting concept but honestly not all that exciting to me.
If I understand correctly, it is doing frequency modulation somewhere, but the main point is that you can physically interact with the resonators, and influence the sound that way.
> Beyond adjusting parameters, phase8 invites physical interaction. Sculpt sound by touching, plucking, strumming, or tapping the resonators – or experiment by adding found objects for new textures.
Pretty sick demo here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFNQoekyGAs
at 6:20 he's showing how placing different objects on the resonators changes their tone.
I want this so bad.
> he's showing how placing different objects on the resonators changes their tone
"Have you ever thought re-patching your modular synth was too easy? Here, now your drum machine can be even harder to recreate the sound you liked last week!"
A joke, but was immediately what jumped out as scary. Not gonna lie, looks like a fun machine, but for that money, I tend to buy stuff I can use and recall old patches with. Although except for the modular obviously :/
What an insightful comment. I've always considered art as something that can't be recreated, as it involves the state of mind the creator was at the time of creating it. I would worry no more about recreating a sound on this synth as I would recreating the exact pitch of an acoustic guitar I made last year.
Your take is obviously a valid one though. I just find it infinitely interesting how there can be so many valid viewpoints about something like this.
That is how many synth users feel as well, that they don't need presets because they'll just create a new sound. Neither approach is invalid as there is no right or wrong way to be creative.
I'm not a professional musician but making patches is something I never knew was fun until I tried it and it immediately became my favorite musical activity. Sitting down with my Minilogue XD and spending and evening just making an ephemeral 16 step sequence is a really great recreation activity that I'd recommend for anyone.
Totally agree. Have you tried VCV Rack? You're welcome/I'm sorry :D
As I'm a software engineer I try to avoid software tools for recreation but it's getting harder and harder and vcv-rack is even on nix package manager. I think I might have to break my rule just this once - thanks!
As a counter curse I recommend strudel.cc back at you :)
I think it’s one of the best pieces of software in existence and I don’t say that lightly. In a perfect world we’d have a magic of box of every modular component to build and rebuild to tinker with the physical controls but in lieu of magic vcv rack plus a midi controller is the next best thing
Strudel is very cool. Possibilities are endless with music tools
I'd say "meh" to VCVRack. Just like you, I got into music production to get away from the computer so I avoid software when I can, I basically only have hardware for production, so I can use my hands and not stare at screens, only do mastering in a DAW.
Like you, many people along the years been telling me that I'll love modular synths, and I should try it out VCVRack to get a taste. So I did, maybe once or twice a year. It never felt fun for me, even one bit. Never sure why.
Then at some point I borrow my friend's modular setup as he was going to play in places where he couldn't bring it, and I finally understood what's so fun about it. The hardware is what makes it fun and relaxing for me, not the concepts themselves, and seemingly for me, they don't translate into the digital realm.
I guess the point is: I'm kind of similar to you and I couldn't get into VCVRack but actual real modular synths are fun as hell. Maybe it's the same for you, so don't lose hope if VCVRack ends up not feeling fun :)
Personally I swing both ways. I love to just with, say, a basic sawtooth wave (honestly that, a little filter, and a basic ADSR gets you To many of the most iconic sounds of the 70s), but I do like presets so when I land in something really special I can snapshot it.
There are forms of art where the "meta" is that the artists are attempting to recreate something exactly the same each time, but in doing so there is always something different (theater, live music, etc). Some art leans towards perfection in recreation and some leans towards the unique.
Professionals are usually good at doing both.
You nailed it. Cool idea. Nice design. Great demo. Fun toy.
I'm sure I'd have a good time playing with it for an afternoon and come up with some sounds I like. And, in principle, I'm all for more ways to create music existing - especially ones which are interactive and tactile. But the reality is, if I bought this device it would end up spending most of its time in the basement graveyard with all the other cool tools that are too narrow, too big, too hard to interface, store/recall patches, etc.
I decided several years ago to refocus on a stack that's purely microphone (or other a/d converted input) + MIDI controllers to a DAW driving infinite layers of internal real-time digital synthesis, analog modeling and effects plug-ins. There are fabulously expressive MPE (MIDI Polyphonic Expression) controllers now which can capture every nuance of input my hands, feet and breath could ever provide. As you highlighted, the feeling that creating in a digital audio workstation is "too easy" or maybe somehow 'soulless' - is all in my head. That lurking suspicion analog circuitry or electro-mechanical waveforms are more authentic or pure is just magical thinking.
Always believing that the next new box's cool-looking tactile input, novel interaction model or unique set of opinionated constraints will unleash my creativity - is just getting in the way of actually sitting down and making myself create with all the insanely powerful, wildly creative, infinitely flexible, hyper-productive digital tools I already have. Being able to save and recall entire racks worth of patching at the press of a button isn't soulless or limiting - unless I let it be. Feeling like I need just-one-more new device to inspire me with its defaults or constrain me with its limits - is the limiting constraint I finally realized was holding me back.
I used to worry about recall but eventually realised I made more and more interesting music when I treated my gear like a regular musical instrument and just recorded myself playing to audio. Perfect recall put me in a brain loop of endless tweaking that didn’t actually benefit the music at all, it would all just end up sounding overthought. Plus I had more fun doing it. This was a bit of a revelation for me. Obviously, whatever works for you works for you, but just a counterpoint.
> Plus I had more fun doing it.
Of course, that's what really matters most. I do appreciate that the infinite possibilities, permutations and even extreme convenience all-in-one digital integration provides can become a downside. It really depends on personal style, preferences and goals.
Confronted by all that boundless possibility, I have sometimes found myself freezing up with 'possibility agoraphobia' or just rat-holing into the tweak-cycling you describe. Ultimately, I figured out I have to enforce some discipline on myself - which felt a bit odd since I'm strictly doing this for fun. My realization was that the needed discipline can either be embedded in the tools or style I choose or I can choose to enforce it on myself - which is its own burden. Every approach has its benefits and costs. No free lunch :-).
In a broad sense, I suspect any of the different approaches (all acoustic, analog, digital or some hybrid) represent sweet-spots that balance latitude and constraints in different ways. All that truly matters is finding one that meets us where we are in the moment and feeds our soul.
Yeah, I think a bit of difference gives it a bit more character, fully agree. Recall is more about being in the transition between two different songs when performing, and needing to get to a start point that works with what you're transitioning to. For jamming, it's fun to spend 2-3 minutes finding a sound that works, but for performance or recording, it gets really tiresome to manually patch 20 cables on the fly.
But as you say, no right or wrong, we all do things under different circumstances and contexts, and what works for someone is wrong for another, and all that :)
> Feeling like I need just-one-more new device to inspire me with its defaults or constrain me with its limits - is the limiting constraint I finally realized was holding me back.
That's true in so many fields.
You can change the actual resonator shape (it says it comes with 3 different shapes) to affect their sound. Like actually unscrew them and screw different ones on. Since this is just a piece of metal I see endless hacking opportunities here.
Looks really interesting, no doubt. But I also see that you can change the sound by just placing objects on top of the resonators, so I'm guessing if I was jamming with that, I'd try placing my hand, foot, head and a bunch of other stuff on top of the resonators. Probably find some neat sounds.
Then next week I'm gonna have zero ideas about how to recreate it again :P Already suffering with this with the modular synth, and those are just cables in specific holes.
Korg satisfies both ends of this spectrum in its different products. The Microkorg 2 is the update of its record-setting best-seller built around "here is a giant preset knob that has sounds organized by genre". You can program a Microkorg and it does have plenty of depth, but the general idea of it is to be a go-to "recall" box for the quintessential synth sounds.
While the feature is useful, in some senses it's not terribly important to have a sound be exact, because you're giving a performance to the circumstance. Acoustic instruments react to temperature and humidity and all of that - it worked fine for thousands of years of music.
> Korg satisfies both ends of this spectrum in its different products.
I thought you were going to say the Korg Legacy Collection was the "other end". https://www.korg.com/us/products/software/korg_collection/le...
It's basically every synth Korg ever made up to around 2005 (about 20 in all) as software plug-ins capable of playing the original presets and patches. It even includes all the presets and optional patch library cards and expansions Korg ever offered for each (often worth more than the synth itself).
Some of the greatest albums of all time (and several of my personal favorites) were primarily made with these. And they take zero space, need no maintenance and patch instantly into all my other gear with no ground loops, sampling hiss or MIDI timing issues.
And the minilogue scratches the "gazillion knobs and mostly true analog poly synth" for a pretty unbeatable price. Anything else around the same price is either mono only, or digital.
I love Korg but personally I think this is stupid.
I had an OASYS PCI and synthkit 20 years ago that had incredible physical modeling.
Maybe because I can picture what this would sound like with those OASYS models that it is not impressive at all.
I do always appreciate how daring korg can be though.
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Just a bit later in the video he shows using his finger to change the pitch of the resonator on the right as well. I'm often a bit sceptical of "gimmicky" instruments (what's that synth with all the rotors inside that makes a noise a bit like a vacuum cleaner when you use it? but, I have to say, the Phase 8 does sound really cool and, just as important, looks really fun to use as well.
Be interested to see how long it takes before Florian gets his hands on one to review for Bad Gear though.
> (what's that synth with all the rotors inside that makes a noise a bit like a vacuum cleaner when you use it?
Motor Synth: https://gamechangeraudio.com/motor-synth/
Agreed the Phase8 is a neat synth. Basically like a Rhodes and a EBow had a baby.
That’s the one, yes - thank you! Looks super cool but is rather impractical, and I seem to remember a review - might even have been Audiopilz - suggesting that you could get similar sounds out of plenty of other synths.
Yeah, it's not just the novelty aspect, I genuinely like how it sounds and how it opens up new ways to be creative with sound making. I'd really like to hear what Radiohead or Bjork would make with something like that.
Or Daft Punk, if they didn't decide to not punk together anymore.
Maybe Venus Theory can run it through its paces as well.
much better vid imo: https://youtu.be/xHlYvj0Ge7I
without the heavy crushing effects
I share the feeling, but too many hobbies already. :)
It just another way to do something that a lot of these tone generators can do already, i'm not seeing the appeal other than to have some quick fun with sounds.
Has that always been the appeal?
I meant this:
Has that not always been the appeal.
$1149.99, in case you are wondering: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1946617-REG/korg_phas...
What ammuses me is that the little Korg Volcas synced up in the demo can be found really cheaply if you look around. They were low cost units to begin with and are now old enough to be considered classic equipment so there are loads on the market.
The Volca Drum being used is excellent at making all kinds or resonant, spriny noises with its wave guide effects if that's what you're looking for. It's a very distinct, unique sounding little box.
Volcas in general are an affordable way to get started with electronic music making. Cheap enough and easy enough to sell if you change your mind.
(I still really want a Phase 8 though :P )
Coming next year: A Behringer knockoff that's just as good for $250.
ah the savings possible when somebody else does all the original work and RnD
“just as good” with every single corner cut ;)
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Not too bad, considering the space it sits in.
Another "physical modeling synthesizer" which I've been looking at for the last few weeks (https://www.ericasynths.lv/steampipe-3153/) goes for €990, which is more or less the same as the phase8, when you consider the currency difference.
Edit: Actually, seems phase8 will be slightly cheaper, my local (Spain) shops seems to sell it for around €950.
I really love the Steampipe and its approach to synthesis, its a lot of fun:
https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/1j7hgoo/makin...
Erica synths makes really solid hardware too.
Phase8 isn't physical modeling, though. It's actually electroacoustic, like a Rhodes.
Years ago I used to make things like this, I discovered sites like 120 years of Electronic Music[0] and the Experimental Musical Instruments Journal[1] which my local library bizarrely had and went to town. Spent a lot of time digging through the local surplus shop that was a goldmine for cheap stuff for such things. The last project I started in on was a tuning fork organ, made my own tuning forks and coils and pickups to drive them, had big dreams with it but only ended up making about an octave worth, which I had great fun with. Most of these random instruments I controlled with my old Arp Odyssey which I even added CV outs for the LFO/Envelopes so I could modulate them and ran the output into the filter input, fun times.
I might buy this, not really my interest these days but it really looks like great fun.
[0] https://120years.net
[1] https://barthopkin.com/experimental-musical-instruments-back...
I keep telling myself to stop lusting over gear and just start making music, but…
EDIT: Saw that it’s pretty much a fixed-key device, which makes it much less appealing. Still pretty damn cool, though.
GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome = buying stuff you don't really need is a serious problem in the synth/eurorack community.
Doesn't every musician with money have this problem? Every rockstar owns like 50 guitars. And they don' like to admit they're just collecting. They always got some story about why they need to buy the nth guitar that's missing from all the other tens of guitars they already own.
Almost all of them own instruments and gear they'll touch once and never do anything meaningful with ever again. Then it becomes a fixture on their walls or den.
It all seems wasteful.
But still, by rich people standards, it seems cheaper than other things like buying a huge boat.
Yeah I mean many people with disposable income seems to be doing this, it's just that the music community has a name for it, GAS, and it's a bit of a meme in the community.
I have a friend who seemingly collects mechanical keyboards. He keeps saying he needs them for various purposes, but always seems to be using the latest one, then the old ones go up on a shelf and sit there.
Another friend is obsessed with football, so he has a bunch of shoes, also "depending on the grass/ground" yet keeps using 1 or 2 the most, the others seems to in some cases be "collectors items" and never gets used.
Another friend is a avid golfer, literally has a wall in the garage with clubs, but seems to mostly stick with the clubs they have in their go-to bag.
I'm sure I could come up with more examples, it just seems pervasive among all people who can spend money on their hobbies.
I have a friend who plays tennis. He literally has like 100 tennis balls, all neatly packed and sorted on a shelf. Of course, all you need for a tennis match is like 3-4, since more won't fit in the pockets anyway.
If you're practicing your serve alone it's convenient to have a lot of tennis balls. It's quicker to gather all the balls in a big batch than individually.
I don't currently have any physical instruments while I have had quite a collection and nice studio in the past.
I think it comes down to the fact that it is fun collecting gear and a lot easier than actually making music. Making music is really hard.
I also don't think it even cost me $2k when it was all said and done with all the gear I bought. So much of the gear held its value and one piece of gear I had I sold for 3x what I bought it for so that paid for so much depreciation on gear that didn't hold its value.
Some gear heads I know have money to burn but others just have their savings in gear instead of a savings account at the bank.
This goes to 11!
Or any community that involves conspicuous consumption. There's always what feels like a majority of people who collect/buy/show off more than they use things
and that's fine in some sense if you're honest about what you're doing.
I have at least one guitar that I rarely play but I keep because I consider it a work of art and a collectible. But, I have others which are workhorses and I play daily.
It gets awkward when collecting is presented as a way to be a better musician, which is clearly false.
It also percolates into reviews, too. When a nontrivial fraction of the community is buying dreams and is about collecting as opposed to using whatever it is, some reviewers style their content towards that crowd and overlook issues or benefits that pop up when actually using the gear.
I don't have a problem with collecting, but I'd love for the distinction to be more upfront.
On that note I absolutely love Matt Johnson (Jamiroquai)'s youtube channel because you can tell he likes gear but spends a huge amount of time actually playing it and making his own patches. So much of the review market is just GAS-inducing paid promo stuff.
> It also percolates into reviews, too
It's kind of easy to detect though. I usually read three/four paragraphs before I realize that the person reviewing doesn't actually make music and doesn't consider the music making parts of the hardware, and instead focuses on very generic stuff that basically the manufacturer handed to them and said "make sure this is included".
Problem? Buying what makes you happy is keeping the entire synth industry afloat!
He explains it quite well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81fMDyNCljM
Could mount a guitar pickup under the tines of a kalimba and get much the same effects.
I think that’s actually pretty different. In this case the tines are being electronically “plucked” - in the kalimba + pickups case you have to do all the plucking
You might an internet search for "Array mbira" entertaining.
Actually you can change the keys up so much you can do microtonal scales on it, but at the end of the day its a metallaphone so not likely to ever be the only piece of gear you'd want to use, you'd want to mix this with other gear to make a full sound.
“Essentially” in the sense you can’t really change the 8 frequencies you have to choose from quickly. Kinda impractical to do if you wanna play a set that spans different keys/tonalities.
Cheap Eurorack ersatz version https://gieskes.nl/eurorack/?file=4-relay-module ?
This website is horrific I love it
Reminds me of the original Korg Wavedrum from the 90s, which was by far the best e-drum ever, you can lightly scratch it or hit it with a strong stick, endless tone and amplitude possibilities.
So this is a synth in which a bank of oscillators use physically vibrating elements. From there, things proceed conventionally?
It reminds me of systems in the "Sustainiac" family for generating unlimited sustain in an electric guitar, at any volume. There is a powered circuit which drives feedback into the string through a coil ("reverse pickup"). Typically the reverse pickup is in the neck position. So effectively the vibrating string becomes part of an oscillator circuit.
We can imagine a harp like instrument (or koto) with multiple steel strings, oscillating under a Sustainiac-like pickup feeedback system, and used as the basis for synthesis.
It looks as if the reeds in the Korg instrument might work similarly.
This video is nice because it talks about the feel of the Sustainiac: how it "kicks in" and you feel the vibration swell just when you fret a note with your left hand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsbdvkIua8o
This one does a good job of demoing the three way harmonic switch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZwPPGsxY6g
You can sustain the fundamental, or have it go to the octave harmonic, or even a higher harmonic above that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsbdvkIua8o
the 'light pedal' by gamechangeraudio would pair well with this. it uses a real spring inside the pedal to create an analog spring reverb. theres also some sort of laser used as well since the spring isnt long enough
https://gamechangeraudio.com/light-pedal
there is also their 'motor pedal' which uses a spinning motor similar to one that would be found in a drone, and then a laser again or something optical to pick up the movement and turn it into a digital signal.
they actually have a synth that uses 8 of these motors to generate the sounds/voices
Motors spinning shafts that produce signals is a very old technique, dating back to the Telharmonium [1897], whose tonewheel technique was also used in Hammond organs [1935].
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonewheel
Speaking of spring reverbs: you can use a cheap piezo transducer mounted on the tremolo springs of an electric guitar as a passive reverb. Waylon MacPherson demonstrates this in his YT channel: it actually sounds good!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP5pJLgHrgw
http://andrewmcpherson.org/project/mrp
I'm not being dismissive when I say there isn't anything super innovative, within the individual components that make up this synth, but this is conceptually an electric tine piano with sound processing circuitry.
That's sick,and I want it. I also want a zither-style stringed version and one with bells
They must be more proud about the look of it than how it sounds because I can't find any sound demo on the page. Plenty of pictures though. I am gonna make a Photoshop alternative and on the product page I am only gonna have a lot of sounds of me farting.
Seems like the bars are just there to produce the (almost) sine wave oscillation part of the synth which is neat I guess but it just seems like a gimmick if I am being totally honest. I still respect them trying new ideas though.
I don't think it even sounds that interesting. Especially if you have ever used the various physical modeling ensembles in Reaktor. It isn't even close to some of those.
I mean… this is pretty similar to how a rhodes works… are those a gimmick?
Doesn't the Rhodes use hammers to hit the bars though?
My son and I are both fascinated by synthesizers and what they can do. I bought this:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Nts1Mk2--korg-nutekt...
For us to build and play with, and we have a ball with it. This phase8 would be a ton of fun as well.
Is there a demo ? i couldn't find it on the page
Loopop did a very thorough review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHlYvj0Ge7I
Red Means Recording made a nice video with it: https://youtu.be/mpMxHfxuNco
Demos are on the feature page: https://phase8.korg.com
Or on the page of the prototyping stage: https://korg.berlin/products/phase8
It’s interesting comparing the enthusiasm I see in this thread compared to the more jaded responses I’ve seen in r/synthesizers
I think it looks cool and fun. Wish my workflow and time could accommodate it right now but they can’t. I’m really curious to hear what people who spend time with it are able to do.
Maybe i'm not fully grasping how it works, but i don't really see the acoustic part, aren't the resonators just turning the steel vibrations into an electric signal via coils in the same way an electric guitar works? basically what's the advantage of this vs plugin an electric guitar as a signal input to an analog synth?
Guitar strings do not generate sound, unless plucked. However there are devices like the Sustaniac and the short-lived Moog guitar that do use electromagnets to induce vibrations in the strings. So you could compare this to the Sustaniac.
EDIT - forgot about the ebow
They have visible pickups, which presumably have a permanent magnet core.
But how are the resonators getting 'plucked'? Is it the same electromagnet as the pickup or a separate one? I can't imagine those two modes would work well. (i.e. dumping current across the coil would make the magnet want to escape)
Perhaps there's a field coil instead of a permanent magnet?
My guess is that it uses magnetic fields to resonate the bars (kinda like an ebow). Any plucking types sounds are probably done with filter/envelopes within the electronics.
The visible coils provide the stimulus, I think. The pickups are mounted near the top (middle?) of the resonators and not directly visible.
Physical hardware is fun, sounds better (when analog or acoustic) but I can't go back after a long time with a streamlined VST-based workflow. For playing without a computer, I simply use romplers for the convenience. So, while I have a gut desire for this gear, I won't ever actually buy it...
Unfortunately, I definitely disagree with the "sounds better" argument, particularly for this instrument. I do own a vibraphone, and happen to also design synthesizers, and I did not find the Phase8 sound to be compelling. One of the appeals of a synthesizer is its spectral plasticity, and the output of the Phase8 relies too heavily on the sonic characteristics of the resonator medium. My vibraphone definitely suffers from this, and has the cultural baggage of being a recognizable instrument, but it is a much more pleasing sameness than the Phase8.
Glad to see this has finally been released after years of R&D :) can't wait to see what Takahashi-san and team cook up next.
In principle, Korg Berlin looks like a great model for satellite incubator within an established organization. Would absolutely love to work there.
I was wondering to myself why korg berlin exists. Like i would be shocked if they sell enough of these to pay for the preceding five years of rent much less the salaries. Is it genuinely moonshot r&d, like a bell labs or xerox parc? Is it just to prevent Takahashi from starting a competitor? Something else? Whichever reason, i’m glad it exists… it just feels improbable.
Phase 8 is a high margin collectible and brand promotion device. Korg may not make their money back from direct sales - although I wouldn't be surprised if they did - but likely there would be enough of a halo effect to make it worthwhile.
I expect this will turn into a small range of variations with strings, tubes, and so on.
But it's also part of a cultural trend moving back from do-it-all software products to tactile collectibles with a simple, legible purpose. Vinyl started that, and I think this is a kind of musical take on the idea that something mechanical has more presence and authority than software.
Sonically I don't think that's true at all, but it's a comprehensible marketing pitch.
Agreed, its existence is implausible, but I assume they're consulting on other projects for Korg Japan in addition to developing Phase8 and other prototypes. They're undoubtedly taking a loss (despite low European salaries) but their contributions across the board could also scale non-linearly.
I also imagine that it's the olive branch that brought Takahashi back to the company after he left. He brought Korg back from the dead and they were probably and rightfully desperate to find a way to retain their top performer.
It's honestly incredible they're bringing this to market! This style of incubator tends to work on a lofty goal and the research and ideas explored on the way trickle down into other parts of the company and find their way into more accessible products. Really similar in theory to the over the top concept cars manufacturers build that never see the light of day.
Wow, this is really innovative. It really takes "physical modeling" synths to another, more literal level. Would love to have been a fly on the wall when the idea was proposed.
This + an Ekdahl Moisturizer would be an interesting pairing.
cool, but doesn't sound that great when you close your eyes and just listen. Other synths beat this hands down especially at > $1000, and can easily bring in the physical world already, including live workflows. The issue is when we get into the physical analogue world, craftsmanship, materials, shape, often age, and of course the varied kinetic interactions with the sound solicitor, bring depth and richness which no little electrically-excited xylophone will ever get anywhere close to.
Looks really neat. I wish I had one, I am curious but it just sounds like an FM to me. In the demos I hear very decayed percussive FM sounds or mellow bell like FM sounds.
It looks most similar to a Rhodes piano-type electromechanical keyboard, where tuned metal elements are somehow actuated and then sonified with a guitar pickup. Unlikely theres any FM which would require independently digitizing each of the resonators and just generally a lot of complexity that doesnt seem warranted.
The similarity in timbre isn't coincidental though -- FM is noted for its ability to emulate complex timbres like bells/metallic tones (such as electric pianos) that are challenging for more traditional subtractive synthesis architectures.
I agree. I have a Nord Drum 3P that’s FM percussion modeling with drum pads. I can get close to these sounds and a lot more stuff that bends when you hit the pad harder. About half the price on Reverb. The Phase 8 is a cool idea.
Yeah as far as I can tell the bars are just producing sine waves and everything else is done within the electronics, interesting concept but honestly not all that exciting to me.
If I understand correctly, it is doing frequency modulation somewhere, but the main point is that you can physically interact with the resonators, and influence the sound that way.
If Kraftwerk were still doing their thing this would be right up their alley. But they probably got their own special gear.
Kraftwerk are still doing their thing.
I know because I totally failed to get tickets to see them at the Royal Albert Hall in June[1].
https://www.royalalberthall.com/tickets/events/2026/kraftwer...
Florian Schneider has been dead for 5 years and Ralf Hutter is pushing 80.
Other people have made electronic music too since 1975.
Looks cool but kinda seems like a baby of Intellijel plonk and rings with a different physical interaction.
This needs to be mashed up with the Daxophone. Like, can I clamp pieces of wood into it and bow them?
I guess I am left wondering why the person in the photo is playing it with a pencil and a truffle.
Says right underneath:
> Beyond adjusting parameters, phase8 invites physical interaction. Sculpt sound by touching, plucking, strumming, or tapping the resonators – or experiment by adding found objects for new textures.
Like prepared piano.
And here I told myself I wasn't going to buy anymore synthesizers.
I'll wait for the Bad Gear review, thanks.
Sounds really cool to listen to someone talk _about_ this synth.
Sounds pretty meh listening to the synth itself in any demos I've seen so far.
Still an awesome product and piece of tech art.
Myself, I can't imagine buying this synth for anything other than putting on a shelf to look at and talk about.
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It’s news because you can actually buy one now. If you’re gonna be mean it’s best not to be mean AND wrong.
> an Wikipedia?