I was an intern at SGI in the summer of 1998, when we shipped the latest minor version of IRIX, 6.5. I worked on a test suite for IRIX's pthreads implementation, and got to ship a teeny, tiny bit of real code that fixed a real-time hold-off in pthread_mutex_t. (IRIX is a hard RTOS, you see.) As things happened, the dot-dot releases of that minor version would be the last releases of IRIX to roll off the software assembly lines before SGI put it in maintenance mode for these last darn-near-30-years.
In 2000, I was the 20th-or-so full-time engineer at VMware, where I worked for 9 years. Then was at Facebook from 2009 to 2016, where I worked on the search backend (now replaced), HHVM (which still runs the Big Blue Application, a shrinking portion of the Meta Empire), and started FAIR in 2015 (which finally seems to have turned around the "open" sign with Yann's departure).
In 2016 I started at Slack as Chief Architect, where I mostly did not write a ton of code. I worked on a job queue scheduler which I would not be surprised to find has been replaced. And after that I was mostly encouraging/advising people doing Real Work.
All of which is to say, it is quite possible that the last code I've worked on professionally that is out there running on customer machines ... is that libpthread mutex bug fix from when I was barely old enough to drink.
I was a young systems programmer in this decade, which were some of the most virulent of my life, and I had a lot of projects on Irix, particularly in Mountain View, necessitating my weekly flight from Burbank to San Jose for 3 days on site, porting and hacking and generally having a great ol' Irix time .. and oh, how I loved my trips into the SGI parts of town, the Birds of a Feather meetings discussing Irix vs. Linux (and SunOS and *BSD, oh no!), the flight simulator facility on the SGI campus where I would regularly get trounced by Air cadets in a matter of seconds .. the beautiful buildings that looked like they belonged under my desk or atop the Indy I had at home .. the confident air of the SGI engineers at lunch in the Oracle campus, the crazy ports of naughty things to naughty hardware (Netscape Navigator on Nintendo 64, oh my, how naughty you were, SGI!)
If only SGI had not made that Microsoft deal, had a bit more respect for their hardware engineers, and instead actually built a laptop to compete with Apples famed tiBook. Its one of my favourite alternative-universe daydreams .. what if the tiBook was an SGI tiBook, running Irix out of the gate .. would we have quite the Big Fruity Company dilemma we suffer today? What would an SGI iPhone have looked like?
Off to play some Tranquility and calm myself down a bit.
SGI creates a low power cpu for Apple to use in portable devices, eventually in desktops and laptops (no Arm).
And either:
SGI launches low budget PC with playstation 1 level 3d graphics as soon as they could compete with win3.1/95, running Irix.
Or:
A few years after that SGI launches what is essentially the Voodoo 2.
Any way you look at it the only possible future for SGI was low cost mass market devices. Just a matter of picking which one, they picked none.
Yes.. some interesting thoughts there, MIPS in my pocket: hell yeah.
The crazy thing is, SGI did have internal research projects to do such things .. they had engineers working on porting Netscape to the N64, which could very well have served as the basis for a more interesting consumer-end mass market device. Imagine if someone at SGI had put a cell modem in the mix somehow, yikes.
Well, its all a dream. Meanwhile I still have all my SGI gear, and I'm not afraid to admit I've been looking at 3DFX Voodoo cards on EBay a little more than I should have today ..
>Yes.. some interesting thoughts there, MIPS in my pocket: hell yeah.
The PSP, and twice, as it had an r3k interpreter/loader for PSX games.
Also, you can call me crazy, but I played Nethack under the PSP with the CFW mod setting the clock from 222MHZ to 50MHZ lasting the battery a few hours more...
The GCWZero was a MIPS console too, and pcsx-rearmed had optimisations for that too.
There have been a couple of GCWZero clones made in more recent years (e.g. from Anbernic) running the same (or a derivative) Linux-based OS with JZ4770 MIPS SoC and software compatibility. Too bad Ingenic never released any successor to the SoC though.
> the crazy ports of naughty things to naughty hardware (Netscape Navigator on Nintendo 64, oh my, how naughty you were, SGI!)
I remember in my youth when I first discovered Linux, soon after discovering that it ran on all sorts of architectures and starting to wonder how many of the computing devices I owned I could get running Linux.
The N64 and a Mac LC III were the only two I never managed to make it happen on. The idea of IRIX on one somehow never even crossed my mind, even though in hindsight it seems so obvious.
I read there was a plan to bring some kind of network platform to the N64, but I was completely unaware there was a port of Netscape to it -- and googling doesn't show anything either!
Do you have any more info? Is that something you ever had a copy of?
No, I only ever witnessed it being tested on N64 hardware during my visits to Oracle to have lunch with friends .. it was a "what if" kind of project, as far as I recall, to see if it could be done. I guess it wasn't viable.
Fahrenheit was the end, as soon as that was the way forward, nothing happened except engineers went off to work for Nvidia, which nobody at SGI seemed to have a problem with.
You can't change a company that sells products for a minimum of £10K to a company that sells products for £2K, and the PC was just making the old business model impossible. Apart from anything else, there were some good tools on the PC, albeit MS Office and Adobe Photoshop. The situation was doomed when you didn't need SGI to do decent 3D. They never would have reinvented themselves for this age, sad to say.
> sells products for a minimum of £10K to a company that sells products for £2K
Well .. Apple ended up doing it. Why couldn't SGI? /s
Oh, I know why SGI couldn't do it: elitism. They were high on their own hubris for the latter part of the 90's when they should have been humbled by 3DS Max and Animation:Master eating their lunch .. and used that humility to build products that made people Think Different™ .. they already had a market doing just that, thinking differently to everyone else (who were bleating "Unix is dying, its gonna die, let it die!" at a fever pitch), but that market thought quite a bit too highly of themselves, methinks .. (I know, I was there, and I was one of them.. apart from the "Unix is dying" bit, I never once thought that since the day I had a MIPS RISC/os-based Magnum pizzabox plopped on my desk and was told to do something productive with it..)
Apple literally did that with MacOSX: Unix systems' geekdom from the A/V-media-writers' Mac UI background. You attracted both kinds of white collar jobs from college background. As it came with Xquartz, you could run old legacy software for GL at highers speeds... and hire a graphics expert inbetween to do fancy PDF's/images for the articles and the press releases.
GNU/Linux with KDE3 could have been close but sadly it was too fragmented. If not, well... imagine a full libre QT from the beginning, GTK no existing (no reason for GTK+/Gnome as KDE would have been good enough), automagic Motif converting code into QT at blazing speeds, and QT themselves releasing high quality C bindings. It could have been unstoppable, even more than Apple. No ESD vs ArtsD, Pipewire merging Pulse/ESD and the like would happened long ago. Kparts would left DBUS and COM/OLE in the dust. KHTML/Webkit would have been even far more powerful.
Fedora woudn´t be the reference distro, maybe Slackware with dependencies handled with Slapt-get and a nice GUI installer for newbies. A whole different world, where the smartphones would provice both an input interface... and a sliding keyboard.
Yes, I agree with you on all points - and in hindsight it seems mad that SGI didn't see Apple as the competitors they eventually became, until it was far, far too late.
I rue the day someone at SGI decided to make a deal with the Microsoft devil.
It's weird to consider that the only code I have written that is still running (except for my own machines) is likely minor patches to various open source projects 20 years ago (and some games, but that's something else).
Now I am curious, how does the voodoo 1 compare with the native o2 gfx?
The o2 used a unified memory scheme so it's graphics were never as fast as it's big brother the octane's impact graphics but because of the unified memory it was a texture power house in comparison, close to a GB of texture memory in 1996 is mind blowing, in comparison the ocatane's impact graphics had 4 mb of texture memory and if you payed out the big bucks for a max impact with double the memory(which was the size of a large motherboard)... you still only got 4mb because the extra memory was basicly sli. and a graphics board that had the reputation of desoldering it's own memory off.
Klipsch was famous for making speakers using acoustic horns, which was somewhat esoteric. When they finally made a speaker which used a conventional woofer, they named it “the heresy”.
A 3dfx card running in an O2 surely deserves a similar moniker :)
A nice joke but... this is an sgi, they pretty much invented accelerated graphics. Original glquake used minigl which was GL cut down and neutered to fit within the glide api, these guys invented and their systems could run the full GL. There actually was a very nice accelerated port of Quake on the demo disks included with the system.
It's already done as Quake it's libre source and if the GLIDE headers for SGI match the ones of the 3DFX ones from the Linux implementation it would be just a matter of path setting and a few ifdefs.
As someone with a room full of SGI equipment which already runs Quake (and Doom, and Mektar and Tranquility), I can only say: this port to Voodoo on Irix needs to be done. ;)
There isn’t a Glide version of Quake. John Carmack didn’t want to do endless vendor specific API variants of Quake after an early Rendition Verite port burned him, so just released Glquake and said vendors should support standard APIs.
3DFX had a mantra of “no CAD” so didn’t support OpenGl, as they saw it as a primarily aimed at running CAD software etc. So therefore they had to come up with the somewhat hacky MiniGL to implement enough of OpenGL to get Quake to actually run.
That's because CAD graphics for games where a very different beast. NV Quadro cards would maintain far more objects being rendered but with slower FPS' as a CAD rendering wouldn't requiere real time FX with constant changes everywhere. If you have a look at GLIDE games the effects somehow look 'prettier' and the lights more 'alive'.
/u/sdz-mods - the person doing the 3DFX port to Irix - reported just now that they got MesaFX up and running and that'll serve as the basis of a "MiniGL" to get the port done. ;) So, there is hope!
I was an intern at SGI in the summer of 1998, when we shipped the latest minor version of IRIX, 6.5. I worked on a test suite for IRIX's pthreads implementation, and got to ship a teeny, tiny bit of real code that fixed a real-time hold-off in pthread_mutex_t. (IRIX is a hard RTOS, you see.) As things happened, the dot-dot releases of that minor version would be the last releases of IRIX to roll off the software assembly lines before SGI put it in maintenance mode for these last darn-near-30-years.
In 2000, I was the 20th-or-so full-time engineer at VMware, where I worked for 9 years. Then was at Facebook from 2009 to 2016, where I worked on the search backend (now replaced), HHVM (which still runs the Big Blue Application, a shrinking portion of the Meta Empire), and started FAIR in 2015 (which finally seems to have turned around the "open" sign with Yann's departure).
In 2016 I started at Slack as Chief Architect, where I mostly did not write a ton of code. I worked on a job queue scheduler which I would not be surprised to find has been replaced. And after that I was mostly encouraging/advising people doing Real Work.
All of which is to say, it is quite possible that the last code I've worked on professionally that is out there running on customer machines ... is that libpthread mutex bug fix from when I was barely old enough to drink.
I was a young systems programmer in this decade, which were some of the most virulent of my life, and I had a lot of projects on Irix, particularly in Mountain View, necessitating my weekly flight from Burbank to San Jose for 3 days on site, porting and hacking and generally having a great ol' Irix time .. and oh, how I loved my trips into the SGI parts of town, the Birds of a Feather meetings discussing Irix vs. Linux (and SunOS and *BSD, oh no!), the flight simulator facility on the SGI campus where I would regularly get trounced by Air cadets in a matter of seconds .. the beautiful buildings that looked like they belonged under my desk or atop the Indy I had at home .. the confident air of the SGI engineers at lunch in the Oracle campus, the crazy ports of naughty things to naughty hardware (Netscape Navigator on Nintendo 64, oh my, how naughty you were, SGI!)
If only SGI had not made that Microsoft deal, had a bit more respect for their hardware engineers, and instead actually built a laptop to compete with Apples famed tiBook. Its one of my favourite alternative-universe daydreams .. what if the tiBook was an SGI tiBook, running Irix out of the gate .. would we have quite the Big Fruity Company dilemma we suffer today? What would an SGI iPhone have looked like?
Off to play some Tranquility and calm myself down a bit.
I see the alternate reality like so:
SGI creates a low power cpu for Apple to use in portable devices, eventually in desktops and laptops (no Arm).
And either: SGI launches low budget PC with playstation 1 level 3d graphics as soon as they could compete with win3.1/95, running Irix. Or: A few years after that SGI launches what is essentially the Voodoo 2.
Any way you look at it the only possible future for SGI was low cost mass market devices. Just a matter of picking which one, they picked none.
Yes.. some interesting thoughts there, MIPS in my pocket: hell yeah.
The crazy thing is, SGI did have internal research projects to do such things .. they had engineers working on porting Netscape to the N64, which could very well have served as the basis for a more interesting consumer-end mass market device. Imagine if someone at SGI had put a cell modem in the mix somehow, yikes.
Well, its all a dream. Meanwhile I still have all my SGI gear, and I'm not afraid to admit I've been looking at 3DFX Voodoo cards on EBay a little more than I should have today ..
>Yes.. some interesting thoughts there, MIPS in my pocket: hell yeah.
The PSP, and twice, as it had an r3k interpreter/loader for PSX games.
Also, you can call me crazy, but I played Nethack under the PSP with the CFW mod setting the clock from 222MHZ to 50MHZ lasting the battery a few hours more...
The GCWZero was a MIPS console too, and pcsx-rearmed had optimisations for that too.
> The GCWZero was a MIPS console too
There have been a couple of GCWZero clones made in more recent years (e.g. from Anbernic) running the same (or a derivative) Linux-based OS with JZ4770 MIPS SoC and software compatibility. Too bad Ingenic never released any successor to the SoC though.
N64 was kinda that.
The closest would be the PSP with NetBSD and custom firmware with libre code. Same family in the end.
> the crazy ports of naughty things to naughty hardware (Netscape Navigator on Nintendo 64, oh my, how naughty you were, SGI!)
I remember in my youth when I first discovered Linux, soon after discovering that it ran on all sorts of architectures and starting to wonder how many of the computing devices I owned I could get running Linux.
The N64 and a Mac LC III were the only two I never managed to make it happen on. The idea of IRIX on one somehow never even crossed my mind, even though in hindsight it seems so obvious.
I read there was a plan to bring some kind of network platform to the N64, but I was completely unaware there was a port of Netscape to it -- and googling doesn't show anything either!
Do you have any more info? Is that something you ever had a copy of?
No, I only ever witnessed it being tested on N64 hardware during my visits to Oracle to have lunch with friends .. it was a "what if" kind of project, as far as I recall, to see if it could be done. I guess it wasn't viable.
I don't suppose they'd have a copy?
I'm thinking what an amazing software archeology find it would be, especially if we were able to get it running on a modern emulator.
Fahrenheit was the end, as soon as that was the way forward, nothing happened except engineers went off to work for Nvidia, which nobody at SGI seemed to have a problem with.
You can't change a company that sells products for a minimum of £10K to a company that sells products for £2K, and the PC was just making the old business model impossible. Apart from anything else, there were some good tools on the PC, albeit MS Office and Adobe Photoshop. The situation was doomed when you didn't need SGI to do decent 3D. They never would have reinvented themselves for this age, sad to say.
> sells products for a minimum of £10K to a company that sells products for £2K
Well .. Apple ended up doing it. Why couldn't SGI? /s
Oh, I know why SGI couldn't do it: elitism. They were high on their own hubris for the latter part of the 90's when they should have been humbled by 3DS Max and Animation:Master eating their lunch .. and used that humility to build products that made people Think Different™ .. they already had a market doing just that, thinking differently to everyone else (who were bleating "Unix is dying, its gonna die, let it die!" at a fever pitch), but that market thought quite a bit too highly of themselves, methinks .. (I know, I was there, and I was one of them.. apart from the "Unix is dying" bit, I never once thought that since the day I had a MIPS RISC/os-based Magnum pizzabox plopped on my desk and was told to do something productive with it..)
Apple literally did that with MacOSX: Unix systems' geekdom from the A/V-media-writers' Mac UI background. You attracted both kinds of white collar jobs from college background. As it came with Xquartz, you could run old legacy software for GL at highers speeds... and hire a graphics expert inbetween to do fancy PDF's/images for the articles and the press releases.
GNU/Linux with KDE3 could have been close but sadly it was too fragmented. If not, well... imagine a full libre QT from the beginning, GTK no existing (no reason for GTK+/Gnome as KDE would have been good enough), automagic Motif converting code into QT at blazing speeds, and QT themselves releasing high quality C bindings. It could have been unstoppable, even more than Apple. No ESD vs ArtsD, Pipewire merging Pulse/ESD and the like would happened long ago. Kparts would left DBUS and COM/OLE in the dust. KHTML/Webkit would have been even far more powerful.
Fedora woudn´t be the reference distro, maybe Slackware with dependencies handled with Slapt-get and a nice GUI installer for newbies. A whole different world, where the smartphones would provice both an input interface... and a sliding keyboard.
Yes, I agree with you on all points - and in hindsight it seems mad that SGI didn't see Apple as the competitors they eventually became, until it was far, far too late.
I rue the day someone at SGI decided to make a deal with the Microsoft devil.
It's weird to consider that the only code I have written that is still running (except for my own machines) is likely minor patches to various open source projects 20 years ago (and some games, but that's something else).
Irix6.5 was excellent. Great real time performance, with a large SMP system (thinking Infinite Reality).
Also, tech support was outstanding.
What a great way to start your career.
Now I am curious, how does the voodoo 1 compare with the native o2 gfx?
The o2 used a unified memory scheme so it's graphics were never as fast as it's big brother the octane's impact graphics but because of the unified memory it was a texture power house in comparison, close to a GB of texture memory in 1996 is mind blowing, in comparison the ocatane's impact graphics had 4 mb of texture memory and if you payed out the big bucks for a max impact with double the memory(which was the size of a large motherboard)... you still only got 4mb because the extra memory was basicly sli. and a graphics board that had the reputation of desoldering it's own memory off.
Quake 2 runs a bit iffy on an O2, but runs fine on PC with a Voodoo 1
I wonder if it's optimized for it. Quick! Someone send Fabien an O2 before he finishes his Quake book!
Klipsch was famous for making speakers using acoustic horns, which was somewhat esoteric. When they finally made a speaker which used a conventional woofer, they named it “the heresy”.
A 3dfx card running in an O2 surely deserves a similar moniker :)
Very nice. I guess the final boss would be to port Quake 1 with glide to support this.
A nice joke but... this is an sgi, they pretty much invented accelerated graphics. Original glquake used minigl which was GL cut down and neutered to fit within the glide api, these guys invented and their systems could run the full GL. There actually was a very nice accelerated port of Quake on the demo disks included with the system.
It's already done as Quake it's libre source and if the GLIDE headers for SGI match the ones of the 3DFX ones from the Linux implementation it would be just a matter of path setting and a few ifdefs.
As someone with a room full of SGI equipment which already runs Quake (and Doom, and Mektar and Tranquility), I can only say: this port to Voodoo on Irix needs to be done. ;)
Soon :) Just got MesaFX working with the Voodoo card. Planning to use that as a miniGL replacement.
Awesome. Can't wait to see your progress.
What other neat hardware support might you add in the future?
Well, Voodoo2 is next for sure. As soon as I have a machine in which it actually fits.
Just pick any VooDoo supported source port (old enough, from gcc 3.4 days) it might compile as is with very few changes.
EDIT: all of them use MiniGL, damn....
There isn’t a Glide version of Quake. John Carmack didn’t want to do endless vendor specific API variants of Quake after an early Rendition Verite port burned him, so just released Glquake and said vendors should support standard APIs.
3DFX had a mantra of “no CAD” so didn’t support OpenGl, as they saw it as a primarily aimed at running CAD software etc. So therefore they had to come up with the somewhat hacky MiniGL to implement enough of OpenGL to get Quake to actually run.
That's because CAD graphics for games where a very different beast. NV Quadro cards would maintain far more objects being rendered but with slower FPS' as a CAD rendering wouldn't requiere real time FX with constant changes everywhere. If you have a look at GLIDE games the effects somehow look 'prettier' and the lights more 'alive'.
/u/sdz-mods - the person doing the 3DFX port to Irix - reported just now that they got MesaFX up and running and that'll serve as the basis of a "MiniGL" to get the port done. ;) So, there is hope!