I stumbled on the most hilarious cross-walk encounter between one of the these delivery bots and a Waymo in downtown phoenix.. it seems that neither was programmed (probably rightfully so) to take the initiative in the situation, so what ensued was a painfully drawn out exchange of agentic deference.
I think it's important to note that these things don't take jobs from humans; they dislocate the jobs from expensive humans where the vehicles operate to less expensive humans with an internet connection in the global south. This is literally outsourcing physical labour overseas.
> Labor-saving devices are rarely that — instead labor is shifted, from one department to another, from the body to the brain, or standards are raised — when laundry is done by a machine, its operator must ensure that all clothing is bright, soft, sweet smelling and stain-free
we have these all over chicago and everyone hates them. I thought i hate it because they take up public sidewalks ( possibly illegaly) or that they are hurting delivery drivers or that some guy in india is watching me through the creepy camera on the robot.
But those are posthoc rationalizations i just seem to hate them and i cant really explain why.
I think it's very rational to hate them for taking up public infrastructure for pedestrians, which already is often neglected in NA cities.
Our cities already deemphasize people being out and about in public spaces, so car-centric, and this is an entirely intolerable insult to injury.
They further alienate folks from jobs in their community, they exacerbate the already artificial friction of just walking to a restaurant and being present in your community.
It represents an impressive amount of awful in a tiny cube.
Isn't this a solution to that though as the delivery would otherwise be made by a human in a car. I don't have these robots in my area, but I do have the Walmart delivery drones. Those are interesting to watch. A neighbor recently had a delivery by two drones where one approached within seconds of the first recovering the cradle before moving into the same spot. To the point that I was left wondering if the drones have self co-ordination abilities to know a fellow drone is already in place, or if the timing of the system was just right to avoid collision. Either way, I find the constant drone sound of them zipping by annoying. I'm a 10 minute walk from their base, so they are pretty constant.
Well maybe if all the space was not given to cars there could be some little space for those small lightweight vehicles which is much more efficient than those stupid fat trucks (EDIT: by which I meant SUVs and the likes)
How are light weight vehicles more efficient than trucks? That’s such a broad statement with absolutely no data provided to back it up.
Efficiency matters a lot depending on the context. Delivering 40,000 kg of good cross country? Even a diesel truck is going to be more efficient than 10k little robot.
Last mile delivery? Yes, obviously it’s not good to send a semi trailer to deliver a pizza.
The point is, those big fat trucks aren’t just there to annoy you, they are doing something pretty useful.
I don't think OP's upset with the actual delivery trucks (though NYC banned them from city center for very good reasons). It's those F150 and Cybertruck pavement princesses and massive SUVs that are problematic.
They're an anthropomorphic avatar of everything that is wrong with the business of technology. They're the broken promises of technology with a face. The promise of technology that we've all bought into is a better world, a world that lifts people up, instead we've got these dumb little robots that drive around making it even harder for people to survive. If we lived in a world where everyone's basic needs were met, these little robots would make you feel different.
Two of them have somehow crashed into bus shelters, smashing the glass, most recently on Lawrence iirc. That's good enough reason for me. I use those bus shelters, especially on Lawrence!
> The e-bike craze, which is putting many people, including kids, in the hospital at an alarming rate, has thus far defied similar regulatory frameworks.
CTRL + f : "suv"
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"truck" ?
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I stopped reading past that. That level of carbrain is intolerable. If you think light vehicles capped at 25km/h is an issue idk what to tell you. At least with delivery robots people don't have to take a one ton metal box everywhere with them just to get groceries because they live in a poorly designed car-centric city.
They're not talking about properly regulated e-bikes. They're talking about the huge groups of kids riding around on Surrons and other electric dirt bikes that are actually just motorcycles. They're getting bikes that can do 70mph, wearing no safety gear, and riding them in traffic, and getting hit. That's the e-bike craze the author is talking about.
I think you're right, but journalists have gotta stop calling them ebikes. We already have a widely used term that fits them perfectly and is legally accurate - moped.
What are the fatalities for e-bikes vs SUVs in the US per year?
Your comment is irrelevant otherwise because last time I checked cars are the real problem, and concerns over e bikes / delivery bots is just another lame extension of “safetyism” and ignorance around public transport failures that just misses the mark.
“Riding in traffic” is half the issue here. Like trying to explain water to fish.
I'd like to think I'm about as car-skeptical as your average person with no driver license who just got back from taking three forms of transit home from an all-day recreational road cycling event. But I'm a bit nervous about the speeds of some e-bikes.
A friend of mine spent a week in the hospital recently after crashing his new e-bike almost immediately after buying it. One interpretation of his accident is that he didn't have some of the right instincts for riding a bicycle at that speed.
I don't actually have a clear sense of the breakdown of risk attributable to the different factors of lack of appropriate cycling infrastructure, lack of appropriate rider training or experience, lack of appropriate rider expectations, or inherent safety or stability problems of some designs. My friend whom I mentioned above said his doctors told him that they had been seeing a lot of patients who'd crashed e-bikes (as well as electric mopeds and electric skateboards) at speeds that produced fairly serious injuries.
They can both be a problem. I saw a kid hitting a dike like a ramp with one of these electric dirt bikes. I've seen kids too small for these cruising around way too fast with no helmet.
Big trucks and SUVs are a much bigger problem. But that doesn't mean kids riding around on motorcycles isn't a problem either.
Your caveat makes sense, and I agree those are a serious issue. However, the article doesn't say "illegal e-bikes", "e-motos", "suped-up e-bikes", "dirt bikes", or anything like that. It only says "e-bikes". Even their link to another article is discussing 20-to-28-mph e-bikes, and refers to the faster categories as "e-motos".
If that is truly what McNamara meant, it is very sloppy that they failed to say so.
> At least with delivery robots people don't have to take a one ton metal box everywhere with them just to get groceries because they live in a poorly designed car-centric city.
Robots are not needed and do not enhance grocery delivery. The ones I've seen aren't large enough for a grocery order. I suppose it would be entertaining to see a line of them proceeding to a delivery.
I stumbled on the most hilarious cross-walk encounter between one of the these delivery bots and a Waymo in downtown phoenix.. it seems that neither was programmed (probably rightfully so) to take the initiative in the situation, so what ensued was a painfully drawn out exchange of agentic deference.
I think it's important to note that these things don't take jobs from humans; they dislocate the jobs from expensive humans where the vehicles operate to less expensive humans with an internet connection in the global south. This is literally outsourcing physical labour overseas.
That will apply to only a smaller percentage, even in early days. It's very typical for one human operator to remotely oversee many robots.
> Labor-saving devices are rarely that — instead labor is shifted, from one department to another, from the body to the brain, or standards are raised — when laundry is done by a machine, its operator must ensure that all clothing is bright, soft, sweet smelling and stain-free
What? The washing machine was so effective at saving labor that it's widely considered a major driver of gender equality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washing_machine
my 4-year old daughter likes them and is sad whenever they seem to get stuck in random places for no reason.
Even a bit of cardboard can do surprising tasks with a bit of help. Maybe a fun project. =3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn1tSPP0VF8
http://www.tweenbots.com/
we have these all over chicago and everyone hates them. I thought i hate it because they take up public sidewalks ( possibly illegaly) or that they are hurting delivery drivers or that some guy in india is watching me through the creepy camera on the robot.
But those are posthoc rationalizations i just seem to hate them and i cant really explain why.
I think it's very rational to hate them for taking up public infrastructure for pedestrians, which already is often neglected in NA cities.
Our cities already deemphasize people being out and about in public spaces, so car-centric, and this is an entirely intolerable insult to injury.
They further alienate folks from jobs in their community, they exacerbate the already artificial friction of just walking to a restaurant and being present in your community.
It represents an impressive amount of awful in a tiny cube.
> so car-centric
Isn't this a solution to that though as the delivery would otherwise be made by a human in a car. I don't have these robots in my area, but I do have the Walmart delivery drones. Those are interesting to watch. A neighbor recently had a delivery by two drones where one approached within seconds of the first recovering the cradle before moving into the same spot. To the point that I was left wondering if the drones have self co-ordination abilities to know a fellow drone is already in place, or if the timing of the system was just right to avoid collision. Either way, I find the constant drone sound of them zipping by annoying. I'm a 10 minute walk from their base, so they are pretty constant.
Yeah, pedestrians are already an afterthought, getting this tiny sliver of walk space next to the massive road.
And now you have to share it with someone’s private burrito transport.
Well maybe if all the space was not given to cars there could be some little space for those small lightweight vehicles which is much more efficient than those stupid fat trucks (EDIT: by which I meant SUVs and the likes)
How are light weight vehicles more efficient than trucks? That’s such a broad statement with absolutely no data provided to back it up. Efficiency matters a lot depending on the context. Delivering 40,000 kg of good cross country? Even a diesel truck is going to be more efficient than 10k little robot. Last mile delivery? Yes, obviously it’s not good to send a semi trailer to deliver a pizza.
The point is, those big fat trucks aren’t just there to annoy you, they are doing something pretty useful.
I don't think OP's upset with the actual delivery trucks (though NYC banned them from city center for very good reasons). It's those F150 and Cybertruck pavement princesses and massive SUVs that are problematic.
Nobody is using semis to deliver pizzas and nobody is using sidewalk RC coolers to deliver pallets, what are you on about
Agreed, bicycle paths for bike delivery would be more efficient
They're an anthropomorphic avatar of everything that is wrong with the business of technology. They're the broken promises of technology with a face. The promise of technology that we've all bought into is a better world, a world that lifts people up, instead we've got these dumb little robots that drive around making it even harder for people to survive. If we lived in a world where everyone's basic needs were met, these little robots would make you feel different.
Two of them have somehow crashed into bus shelters, smashing the glass, most recently on Lawrence iirc. That's good enough reason for me. I use those bus shelters, especially on Lawrence!
They take local human jobs, get in the way, and seem extremely "accidentally" kickable if you ask me.
> The e-bike craze, which is putting many people, including kids, in the hospital at an alarming rate, has thus far defied similar regulatory frameworks.
CTRL + f : "suv"
0 matches
"truck" ?
0 matches
I stopped reading past that. That level of carbrain is intolerable. If you think light vehicles capped at 25km/h is an issue idk what to tell you. At least with delivery robots people don't have to take a one ton metal box everywhere with them just to get groceries because they live in a poorly designed car-centric city.
They're not talking about properly regulated e-bikes. They're talking about the huge groups of kids riding around on Surrons and other electric dirt bikes that are actually just motorcycles. They're getting bikes that can do 70mph, wearing no safety gear, and riding them in traffic, and getting hit. That's the e-bike craze the author is talking about.
So calm your tits.
I think you're right, but journalists have gotta stop calling them ebikes. We already have a widely used term that fits them perfectly and is legally accurate - moped.
What are the fatalities for e-bikes vs SUVs in the US per year?
Your comment is irrelevant otherwise because last time I checked cars are the real problem, and concerns over e bikes / delivery bots is just another lame extension of “safetyism” and ignorance around public transport failures that just misses the mark.
“Riding in traffic” is half the issue here. Like trying to explain water to fish.
I'd like to think I'm about as car-skeptical as your average person with no driver license who just got back from taking three forms of transit home from an all-day recreational road cycling event. But I'm a bit nervous about the speeds of some e-bikes.
A friend of mine spent a week in the hospital recently after crashing his new e-bike almost immediately after buying it. One interpretation of his accident is that he didn't have some of the right instincts for riding a bicycle at that speed.
I don't actually have a clear sense of the breakdown of risk attributable to the different factors of lack of appropriate cycling infrastructure, lack of appropriate rider training or experience, lack of appropriate rider expectations, or inherent safety or stability problems of some designs. My friend whom I mentioned above said his doctors told him that they had been seeing a lot of patients who'd crashed e-bikes (as well as electric mopeds and electric skateboards) at speeds that produced fairly serious injuries.
They can both be a problem. I saw a kid hitting a dike like a ramp with one of these electric dirt bikes. I've seen kids too small for these cruising around way too fast with no helmet.
Big trucks and SUVs are a much bigger problem. But that doesn't mean kids riding around on motorcycles isn't a problem either.
Your caveat makes sense, and I agree those are a serious issue. However, the article doesn't say "illegal e-bikes", "e-motos", "suped-up e-bikes", "dirt bikes", or anything like that. It only says "e-bikes". Even their link to another article is discussing 20-to-28-mph e-bikes, and refers to the faster categories as "e-motos".
If that is truly what McNamara meant, it is very sloppy that they failed to say so.
I generally agree, though ...
> At least with delivery robots people don't have to take a one ton metal box everywhere with them just to get groceries because they live in a poorly designed car-centric city.
Robots are not needed and do not enhance grocery delivery. The ones I've seen aren't large enough for a grocery order. I suppose it would be entertaining to see a line of them proceeding to a delivery.
There are people that don't hate them?
Nah we all hate those clankers