Oh I LOVE this, we can't have enough of these privacy-focused non-profits making tech companies' lives difficult. They have such a strong argument here, too. I can imagine that whoever came up with this is very pleased with theirselves, and rightfully so.
It’s a very European concept, that making life difficult is a worthy pursuit. LinkedIn sucks, and I hate this feature. But that’s why I hardly use it and don’t pay them any money.
> It’s a very European concept, that making life difficult is a worthy pursuit.
It's really hard to understand concepts when you're internationally masking and misleading yourself.
Obviously no one things "making life difficult is a worthy pursuit", but, doing the right thing sometimes is worth a bit of the difficulties it introduces, this is why you see moves like this.
You force yourself onto my life (because, for various reasons, most of the career listings are there for example) and then you attempt to make it miserable too, by using and abusing every FOMO tool in the box ?
You bet your ass I'm going to make your life difficult. If you want it to stop, you're the one with the ball on your side of the court, you know exactly what to do.
It's a very American concept, to believe you can just ignore systems and networks. The guy shitting in your yard every day doesn't go away just because you're not looking at him do it.
Making the lives of those that wish to exploit us and monetize our relationships on their enshittified platforms is not the same as making everyone's life difficult.
I would say that they are the first that decide to make everyone's life harder on purpose, first. Trying to pay them back is the least somebody could do
Love it, the article referring to a statement by a LinkedIn spokesperson: "The first part of that statement is false, as you can see from the screenshot above. Given the obvious untrustworthiness of that half of the statement, we didn't bother wasting any time trying to evaluate the second part."
Not sure I follow the logic. The list of profiles I visit feels like it’s my data, not the owners of target profile. By that logic can I GDPR chrome for the browsing history of anyone who has visited my site? IANAL but I thought GDPR is about getting a copy of your data, not others.
The problem for linkedin is they try to simultaneously claim that it’s the visitors data and therefore they can’t disclose it at the same time as claiming its linkedin’s data so they can sell access to it
They can spin it as "the list of profiles you visit is your data", this list they'll probably give you if requested, but in addition they're also willing to sell you others' data (the list of people who visit you).
Not precisely a nice way to put it, but it seems consistent to me.
I think it's more like if you owned a blogspot site, and you're gdpr'ing the list of users who visited your site (given Google logged every single user who visited, and associated that visit specifically with you).
Linkedin is recording every person who visits your profile and keeps that in your user records, and they are already selling it back to you. The argument is that you have a right to that data.
Linkedin is arguing that this data needs to be protected for the privacy of those visiting your profile and the argument is that if they really believed that, they wouldn't sell it back to you, compromising that privacy anyway.
I don’t think anyone has tested that in court. I wouldn’t be surprised if it should belong to you but fact that most CCTV footage is (or at least was) stored by small independent entities means that you aren’t aware that your CCTV data exists, or wouldn’t find it worthwhile to request it all.
It would be an interesting angle of attack against classic surveillance, though. If there are any vendors that store the video in some centralized system, so you can request it all at once.
But, I think there will be some hurdles, this case specifically relies on the fact that LinkedIn clearly doesn’t believe there’s any reason to keep this data private (they sell users access to it, after all).
It’s a little more complicated than that, because ultimately I control whether you see that I viewed your profile or not, even if you’re a Premium member. If I don’t want other users to see that I viewed their profile, then I don’t get to see who viewed my profile. It’s a setting.
Yes, of course. In European cities there are GDPR disclosures hanged on the lampposts on which CCTV cameras are mounted. The disclosure contains retention period and contact to data processing inspector where you can request the data. You probably need to specify the timestamps and haw to recognise you.
In commercial buildings the disclosure may hang on the wall besides main entrance.
Oh I LOVE this, we can't have enough of these privacy-focused non-profits making tech companies' lives difficult. They have such a strong argument here, too. I can imagine that whoever came up with this is very pleased with theirselves, and rightfully so.
It’s a very European concept, that making life difficult is a worthy pursuit. LinkedIn sucks, and I hate this feature. But that’s why I hardly use it and don’t pay them any money.
It’s about having rights, and exercising them. If companies find that difficult to work with then they’re not even hitting the minimum baseline.
> It’s a very European concept, that making life difficult is a worthy pursuit
This is an incredibly bold statement, and something I really cannot relate to having lived in Europe for over a decade.
It comes across as more of a knee-jerk reaction from someone who believes oversight or accountability of any kind is by definition a needless burden.
> It’s a very European concept, that making life difficult is a worthy pursuit.
It's really hard to understand concepts when you're internationally masking and misleading yourself.
Obviously no one things "making life difficult is a worthy pursuit", but, doing the right thing sometimes is worth a bit of the difficulties it introduces, this is why you see moves like this.
When an entity becomes almost a monopoly, surely the rules about some behaviours should be stronger
You force yourself onto my life (because, for various reasons, most of the career listings are there for example) and then you attempt to make it miserable too, by using and abusing every FOMO tool in the box ?
You bet your ass I'm going to make your life difficult. If you want it to stop, you're the one with the ball on your side of the court, you know exactly what to do.
It's a very American concept, to believe you can just ignore systems and networks. The guy shitting in your yard every day doesn't go away just because you're not looking at him do it.
Making the lives of those that wish to exploit us and monetize our relationships on their enshittified platforms is not the same as making everyone's life difficult.
I would say that they are the first that decide to make everyone's life harder on purpose, first. Trying to pay them back is the least somebody could do
Love it, the article referring to a statement by a LinkedIn spokesperson: "The first part of that statement is false, as you can see from the screenshot above. Given the obvious untrustworthiness of that half of the statement, we didn't bother wasting any time trying to evaluate the second part."
They do say they won’t bother, but the rest of the article is actually precisely covering this second point, aka Article 15 of LK Privacy Policy
Rhetorical argument is rhetorical?
This is the ludicrous part:
> LinkedIn rejected the request on the grounds that protecting that data took precedence.
Guess that implies that paying takes precedence on data protection
Not sure I follow the logic. The list of profiles I visit feels like it’s my data, not the owners of target profile. By that logic can I GDPR chrome for the browsing history of anyone who has visited my site? IANAL but I thought GDPR is about getting a copy of your data, not others.
The problem for linkedin is they try to simultaneously claim that it’s the visitors data and therefore they can’t disclose it at the same time as claiming its linkedin’s data so they can sell access to it
Going by that logic, they shouldn't be selling your data to their premium users. Either way, LinkedIn is on the wrong footing.
They can spin it as "the list of profiles you visit is your data", this list they'll probably give you if requested, but in addition they're also willing to sell you others' data (the list of people who visit you).
Not precisely a nice way to put it, but it seems consistent to me.
I think it's more like if you owned a blogspot site, and you're gdpr'ing the list of users who visited your site (given Google logged every single user who visited, and associated that visit specifically with you).
Linkedin is recording every person who visits your profile and keeps that in your user records, and they are already selling it back to you. The argument is that you have a right to that data.
Linkedin is arguing that this data needs to be protected for the privacy of those visiting your profile and the argument is that if they really believed that, they wouldn't sell it back to you, compromising that privacy anyway.
don't see the issue, the data of who visited my profile belongs first to the visitor and to me iff i pay for it. seems pretty clear, no?
No, that's the point. If the data pertains to you, it's yours. No "iff I pay for it".
exactly, but it doesn’t pertain to you until you pay.
if we assume there’s a directional graph with edges labeled as “visited”. what linkedin is offering is to traverse it backwards for a fee.
what they’re demanding is ludicrous. pure entitlement that would have horrible ramifications for all social media platforms.
should a gdpr export include who has unliked/unreposted your posts too? it definitely pertains to you.
wouldn't that mean every piece of cctv footage that has me in it also belongs to me? i don't see it (no pun intended).
I don’t think anyone has tested that in court. I wouldn’t be surprised if it should belong to you but fact that most CCTV footage is (or at least was) stored by small independent entities means that you aren’t aware that your CCTV data exists, or wouldn’t find it worthwhile to request it all.
It would be an interesting angle of attack against classic surveillance, though. If there are any vendors that store the video in some centralized system, so you can request it all at once.
But, I think there will be some hurdles, this case specifically relies on the fact that LinkedIn clearly doesn’t believe there’s any reason to keep this data private (they sell users access to it, after all).
It’s a little more complicated than that, because ultimately I control whether you see that I viewed your profile or not, even if you’re a Premium member. If I don’t want other users to see that I viewed their profile, then I don’t get to see who viewed my profile. It’s a setting.
Yes, of course. In European cities there are GDPR disclosures hanged on the lampposts on which CCTV cameras are mounted. The disclosure contains retention period and contact to data processing inspector where you can request the data. You probably need to specify the timestamps and haw to recognise you.
In commercial buildings the disclosure may hang on the wall besides main entrance.
Everything as designed.