It is, in the sense that companies like Meta operate assuming that 230 gives them carte blanche to act as they please.
But:
"Plaintiffs characterize Meta’s duty as one of product design—that Meta should not have built Facebook in a way that boosted incitements to violence. Still, the alleged defects relate to Facebook’s core design as a publishing platform, particularly how Facebook promoted or downplayed third-party posts using algorithms. Under our case law, matching users with content is publishing conduct, even when the user has not requested the content."
At issue the question of who, if anyone, is responsible for the speech issues at play when Meta chooses to show me X rather than Y of the near infinite pool of content at its disposal.
Some are indeed looking to completely get rid of 230, but if you ask me, assuming that Meta has 230 protections for all editorial decisions it makes should be considered overbroad. I'm no lawyer, but as a citizen it seems to me that it puts Meta's influence beyond legal accountability in a way that no individual is. And that seems totally unfair.
So you think that, for example, ycombinator, who provides this forum, should have to be prepared to defend in court every single action it takes that restricts someone's use of this site? (For example, every time a post gets restricted because of downvotes?) Because that's what repealing Section 230 would do.
No, I think that ycombinator, who provides this forum... shouldn't.
This thing where we've traded societal trust for profits for the companies destroying it is a bad choice, and section 230 is what enables it. Let it all burn. Bring back small communities with internal trust relationships. Growth is not an automatic good.
(No, pointing out that I wouldn't be allowed to post this isn't a clever gotcha. The whole point of advocating for change is that it would affect me too.)
Platforms should bear some responsibility for the content they distribute. Particularly when they run algorithms to promote content based on what they think will engage your attention. There should be no "safe haven."
Still wild to me that people advocate for making platforms responsible for user-submitted content on a website that consists entirely of user-submitted content.
Everyone always has some excuse for why they believe their favorite websites and platforms wouldn’t be impacted, but generally these problems would result in a situation where only the big platforms like Facebook could afford to comply and the platforms like Hacker News or all of your favorite forums and chat hangouts would be forced to close because they can’t afford to comply with laws making them liable for user generated content.
Repealing 230 would only consolidate power among the big social sites who can afford to comply and lobby.
Without section 230 you'd get a few large publishing outlets moderating all content and you'd also get distributed media where the aggregation is done by each individual.
There just wouldn't be that middle area where social media sites get to choose what you are allowed to say or read just because they have a monopoly on the data.
For instance, you could run your own individual Hacker News site that collects the data and creates the same thing you see today - except you could choose to only view posts and comments by sources verified as humans. Or you could turn on 'show dead' on a grander scale - your choice.
The sites have user submitted content but the sites decide what content they show.
In legacy media the platform is responsible for the content they present you. On new media platforms they are pushing out foreign propaganda and getting financially rewarded for it.
Repeal 230 and put all the controls of recommender system into the hands of the user. Present information chronologically by default.
> Still wild to me that people advocate for making platforms responsible for user-submitted content on a website that consists entirely of user-submitted content.
In both Meta and Google's case, it has been found that it doesn't "consist entirely of user-submitted content", there is also "their software" promoting and recommending content and allowing to pay for higher visibility, and they should certainly be liable for at least this facet of what they do (and were both recently found to have intentionally designed it to be "harmful").
There is also the open question of whether the big tech companies are doing enough to police their platforms, which are all awash with scams, counterfeits and more. Their safeguards for "user-generated content" (somehow including physical goods on Amazon and apps for Android and iPhone) are another facet they should be liable for if it is insufficient.
Oh I think sites would be greatly impacted. To the point where most/all user submitted content would need to be moderated. It would completely upend social media and make most comment-based forums impractical to operate at large scale. I think that would be a good thing. We'd be going back to something like the days of newspapers, where letters to the editor were all read and approved by the publisher before they were printed.
You want to go back to an era where only a select few large, powerful outlets could decide what gets published? You see what’s happening with news media and governments threatening news outlets and you want to consolidate to that?
The rest of us would have to beg for their permission to let our words be heard?
I don’t think you’ve thought this fantasy through.
It's good intentions. Only instead of paving the way to hell, it will pave the way to techo fascist governments. Maybe that is hell. Depends on your income bracket.
If there is a non-transparent or non-user changable algorithm selecting content to present then 230 protections shouldn't apply. This is different than removing 230 entirely
Repeal section 230!
Section 230 is foundational to how the web works.
I think Mike Masnick has a superb grasp of the salient issues, and is articulate. I recommend his writing on the topic.
https://www.techdirt.com/2021/10/29/everything-you-know-abou...
It is, in the sense that companies like Meta operate assuming that 230 gives them carte blanche to act as they please.
But:
"Plaintiffs characterize Meta’s duty as one of product design—that Meta should not have built Facebook in a way that boosted incitements to violence. Still, the alleged defects relate to Facebook’s core design as a publishing platform, particularly how Facebook promoted or downplayed third-party posts using algorithms. Under our case law, matching users with content is publishing conduct, even when the user has not requested the content."
At issue the question of who, if anyone, is responsible for the speech issues at play when Meta chooses to show me X rather than Y of the near infinite pool of content at its disposal.
Some are indeed looking to completely get rid of 230, but if you ask me, assuming that Meta has 230 protections for all editorial decisions it makes should be considered overbroad. I'm no lawyer, but as a citizen it seems to me that it puts Meta's influence beyond legal accountability in a way that no individual is. And that seems totally unfair.
I disagree
So you think that, for example, ycombinator, who provides this forum, should have to be prepared to defend in court every single action it takes that restricts someone's use of this site? (For example, every time a post gets restricted because of downvotes?) Because that's what repealing Section 230 would do.
No, I think that ycombinator, who provides this forum... shouldn't.
This thing where we've traded societal trust for profits for the companies destroying it is a bad choice, and section 230 is what enables it. Let it all burn. Bring back small communities with internal trust relationships. Growth is not an automatic good.
(No, pointing out that I wouldn't be allowed to post this isn't a clever gotcha. The whole point of advocating for change is that it would affect me too.)
please go back to the other reddit.
Nah. Growth is awesome. There are a few casualties but those are acceptable losses.
Why?
Platforms should bear some responsibility for the content they distribute. Particularly when they run algorithms to promote content based on what they think will engage your attention. There should be no "safe haven."
Still wild to me that people advocate for making platforms responsible for user-submitted content on a website that consists entirely of user-submitted content.
Everyone always has some excuse for why they believe their favorite websites and platforms wouldn’t be impacted, but generally these problems would result in a situation where only the big platforms like Facebook could afford to comply and the platforms like Hacker News or all of your favorite forums and chat hangouts would be forced to close because they can’t afford to comply with laws making them liable for user generated content.
Repealing 230 would only consolidate power among the big social sites who can afford to comply and lobby.
Without section 230 you'd get a few large publishing outlets moderating all content and you'd also get distributed media where the aggregation is done by each individual.
There just wouldn't be that middle area where social media sites get to choose what you are allowed to say or read just because they have a monopoly on the data.
For instance, you could run your own individual Hacker News site that collects the data and creates the same thing you see today - except you could choose to only view posts and comments by sources verified as humans. Or you could turn on 'show dead' on a grander scale - your choice.
Section 230 isn't required for social media.
The sites have user submitted content but the sites decide what content they show.
In legacy media the platform is responsible for the content they present you. On new media platforms they are pushing out foreign propaganda and getting financially rewarded for it.
Repeal 230 and put all the controls of recommender system into the hands of the user. Present information chronologically by default.
> Still wild to me that people advocate for making platforms responsible for user-submitted content on a website that consists entirely of user-submitted content.
In both Meta and Google's case, it has been found that it doesn't "consist entirely of user-submitted content", there is also "their software" promoting and recommending content and allowing to pay for higher visibility, and they should certainly be liable for at least this facet of what they do (and were both recently found to have intentionally designed it to be "harmful").
There is also the open question of whether the big tech companies are doing enough to police their platforms, which are all awash with scams, counterfeits and more. Their safeguards for "user-generated content" (somehow including physical goods on Amazon and apps for Android and iPhone) are another facet they should be liable for if it is insufficient.
Oh I think sites would be greatly impacted. To the point where most/all user submitted content would need to be moderated. It would completely upend social media and make most comment-based forums impractical to operate at large scale. I think that would be a good thing. We'd be going back to something like the days of newspapers, where letters to the editor were all read and approved by the publisher before they were printed.
You want to go back to an era where only a select few large, powerful outlets could decide what gets published? You see what’s happening with news media and governments threatening news outlets and you want to consolidate to that?
The rest of us would have to beg for their permission to let our words be heard?
I don’t think you’ve thought this fantasy through.
I didn't say anything about a few large, powerful outlets. I said outlets should at least share responsiblity for what they publish.
It's good intentions. Only instead of paving the way to hell, it will pave the way to techo fascist governments. Maybe that is hell. Depends on your income bracket.
If there is a non-transparent or non-user changable algorithm selecting content to present then 230 protections shouldn't apply. This is different than removing 230 entirely
230 is vital, but platforms want to be covered by it they need to stop using algorithms for anything (including ads) other than "most recent".
Yes
so the social media dinosaurs can make a legal moat against competitors and politicians can slap down opposition.
who knows.
Meta sits behind 230 to let the pedophile rings roll.
https://time.com/7336204/meta-lawsuit-files-child-safety/