I hope early home robotics will be like a game console launch - a community rush to break through any initial barriers to homebrew. Specific early firmwares will be desirable and a whole community will form around creating exploits and running user software. As old robot units fall out of service and are sold in bulk, the community will pick them up and keep them running.
So every 1000 physical bots are going to need the power and cooling equivalent of those super-popular datacenters they are trying to build everywhere
And I am virtually positive I know what the most popular application for them is going to become, the same way we've somehow decided to legalize gambling and drugs and make them available at a click to everyone everywhere
BTW are people going to be able to hack them to commit crimes? Protest for them?
But eventually everything is used for war to murder undesirables, we're only a decade away from the US or Israel etc. airdropping 1000 armed humanoid robots into a civilian space to hunt for "terrorists"
A dishwasher is the only reason you can think of a humanoid robot? How about a robot to load and unload the dishwasher.
The fact is we live in a world built for humans. I have a robot vacuum and for it to be effective I had to setup my home in a certain way, and even then it is not fully effective.
People pay for cleaners to come into their home all the time, it shouldn't be hard to think why a humanoid robot would (theoretically, if it worked well) be far better than a purpose built machine in the home. But also in many cases working with those machines.
Where is my non-humanoid robot that does all the household cleaning? Including vacuuming the stairs (a roomba doesn't work there), dusting the surfaces, mopping floors, cleaning windows...
I guess a warehouse can be designed in a way that works well for a non-humanoid robot, but an environment designed for people in the first place (like a home) fundamentally needs to be person-shaped.
It is ideal insofar as the world has been created with humans in mind. And it’s easier to acquire training data for human shaped entities than for some hypothetical better shape.
It would actually be pretty easy to do with regular robotics (well, compared to a humanoid robot anyways). The reason nobody does it is that it takes up a ton of space which is at a huge premium in pretty much every kitchen ever.
Also like, loading and unloading the dishwasher is not that hard or time consuming.
> Also like, loading and unloading the dishwasher is not that hard or time consuming.
For a me a robot to do the dishwasher would be the number 1 reason for me to buy one.
My dishwasher is basically going at least twice sometimes three times a day (household with small kids). If I "miss" a slot to get everything washed before the next meal time then two things happen:
- the unwashed things begin to build up so there are too many things to fit in the next round and its hard to catch up.
- the things to need to use for meal-Y were still dirty from meal-X so you cant use foo etc.
Its "not much effort" true - perhaps 10-15 mins to unload then reload, but you need to do it 3 or 4 or more times a day AND you need to be there to do it on time so that there is time for it to finish it's load before meal-X etc.
If you are exhausted and its already 11pm and you've got to do your 3rd go at the dishwasher for the day so dirty things from dinner are getting washed and things are put away and ready for breakfast in the morning etc its really annoying. Its the last thing you want to do before going to bed. Or its morning and you're trying to get everyone out the door to school/work and the like, and you need to get the dishes going so that they're clean and ready to unload at lunch time (so that you can get the dirty lunch dishes in at lunch time etc).... you can see how this builds up into quite a pain in the ass hamster wheel.
I would 110% buy a humanoid robot for the cost of a decent second-hand car (so lets say about GBP10-15K) that was able to reliably do three or four 1 hour shifts per day doing basic house-keeper duties autonomously. So aforementioned dishes, cleaning down the dinner table, wiping down the kitchen worktops/countertops, picking up toys and cushions and shoes etc, then it can just go fold itself back into a cupboard in the kitchen to recharge for its next shift. Doesn't have to cook or play the violin or anything, basically just pick up crap off the floor and do the dishes every few hours so I don't have to. Bonus points if it can do it while I am working and/or it can do it silently at night
I'd love the robot to fill and empty the dishwasher and put the stuff in the correct drawers and cabinets
edit: but if the robot could in addition also do dishes in the sink and not need a dishwasher at all, that'd also save up space in the kitchen for something else
If your definition is "it could, at some point, enable me to stop paying humans for their labor and pass along more of the value to major shareholders like myself", then yes, that's a reason to want humanoid robots.
If your definition of "good" is a little more broadly scoped than the above - which it should be if you don't have an MBA and a substance abuse problem - then you're correct.
In a competitive market, this won't happen: "passing along more of the value to major shareholders like myself." The price of human labor will go down, but competition will force the price of goods to go down alongside it. Profit margins will stabilize, but the cost of living and the cost of goods will plummet. It's like the invention of the power loom: it was terrible for the wages of hand-weavers, but it made clothing radically cheaper and more abundant for the rest of humanity. The only way the shareholders keep all the value is if we allow monopolies to form.
The potential difference here is that it might eliminate all human labor which would likely force us into some new kind of economy. Hopefully something better than one where humans waste their lives on manual labor.
I can't wait to see the day I have to listen to the ad pitch of my robot butler before it goes make me a coffee.
Dont forget the artificial people personalities
I hope early home robotics will be like a game console launch - a community rush to break through any initial barriers to homebrew. Specific early firmwares will be desirable and a whole community will form around creating exploits and running user software. As old robot units fall out of service and are sold in bulk, the community will pick them up and keep them running.
And you'll better start to practice worshipping those ads unless your ass wants to be the star in B-166ER's last home video.
So every 1000 physical bots are going to need the power and cooling equivalent of those super-popular datacenters they are trying to build everywhere
And I am virtually positive I know what the most popular application for them is going to become, the same way we've somehow decided to legalize gambling and drugs and make them available at a click to everyone everywhere
BTW are people going to be able to hack them to commit crimes? Protest for them?
But eventually everything is used for war to murder undesirables, we're only a decade away from the US or Israel etc. airdropping 1000 armed humanoid robots into a civilian space to hunt for "terrorists"
LG group uses it naturally for spying from data aggregated in home appliances. The rationale is fluff.
A humanoid robot would demand continuous maintenance, especially after planned obsolescence kicks in. No robot has ever worked under dirt conditions.
why not hyundai (given the existing boston dynamics ownership)?
Why not both? They partner with Anthropic, OpenAI, Google, etc.
There is no good reason to have a humanoid robot. None. Dishwashers do best in a dishwasher shape.
A dishwasher is the only reason you can think of a humanoid robot? How about a robot to load and unload the dishwasher.
The fact is we live in a world built for humans. I have a robot vacuum and for it to be effective I had to setup my home in a certain way, and even then it is not fully effective.
People pay for cleaners to come into their home all the time, it shouldn't be hard to think why a humanoid robot would (theoretically, if it worked well) be far better than a purpose built machine in the home. But also in many cases working with those machines.
Where is my non-humanoid robot that does all the household cleaning? Including vacuuming the stairs (a roomba doesn't work there), dusting the surfaces, mopping floors, cleaning windows...
I guess a warehouse can be designed in a way that works well for a non-humanoid robot, but an environment designed for people in the first place (like a home) fundamentally needs to be person-shaped.
Dishwashers also cannot work without a human loading and unloading dishes. How do you propose to automate this part?
I think this is a good point, but it ignores the idea that a human form is not the ideal (or even closet to) one to do specific and generalized jobs.
It is ideal insofar as the world has been created with humans in mind. And it’s easier to acquire training data for human shaped entities than for some hypothetical better shape.
It would actually be pretty easy to do with regular robotics (well, compared to a humanoid robot anyways). The reason nobody does it is that it takes up a ton of space which is at a huge premium in pretty much every kitchen ever.
Also like, loading and unloading the dishwasher is not that hard or time consuming.
> Also like, loading and unloading the dishwasher is not that hard or time consuming.
For a me a robot to do the dishwasher would be the number 1 reason for me to buy one.
My dishwasher is basically going at least twice sometimes three times a day (household with small kids). If I "miss" a slot to get everything washed before the next meal time then two things happen:
- the unwashed things begin to build up so there are too many things to fit in the next round and its hard to catch up.
- the things to need to use for meal-Y were still dirty from meal-X so you cant use foo etc.
Its "not much effort" true - perhaps 10-15 mins to unload then reload, but you need to do it 3 or 4 or more times a day AND you need to be there to do it on time so that there is time for it to finish it's load before meal-X etc.
If you are exhausted and its already 11pm and you've got to do your 3rd go at the dishwasher for the day so dirty things from dinner are getting washed and things are put away and ready for breakfast in the morning etc its really annoying. Its the last thing you want to do before going to bed. Or its morning and you're trying to get everyone out the door to school/work and the like, and you need to get the dishes going so that they're clean and ready to unload at lunch time (so that you can get the dirty lunch dishes in at lunch time etc).... you can see how this builds up into quite a pain in the ass hamster wheel.
I would 110% buy a humanoid robot for the cost of a decent second-hand car (so lets say about GBP10-15K) that was able to reliably do three or four 1 hour shifts per day doing basic house-keeper duties autonomously. So aforementioned dishes, cleaning down the dinner table, wiping down the kitchen worktops/countertops, picking up toys and cushions and shoes etc, then it can just go fold itself back into a cupboard in the kitchen to recharge for its next shift. Doesn't have to cook or play the violin or anything, basically just pick up crap off the floor and do the dishes every few hours so I don't have to. Bonus points if it can do it while I am working and/or it can do it silently at night
A man can dream.
I'd love the robot to fill and empty the dishwasher and put the stuff in the correct drawers and cabinets
edit: but if the robot could in addition also do dishes in the sink and not need a dishwasher at all, that'd also save up space in the kitchen for something else
Depends on what your definition of "good" is.
If your definition is "it could, at some point, enable me to stop paying humans for their labor and pass along more of the value to major shareholders like myself", then yes, that's a reason to want humanoid robots.
If your definition of "good" is a little more broadly scoped than the above - which it should be if you don't have an MBA and a substance abuse problem - then you're correct.
In a competitive market, this won't happen: "passing along more of the value to major shareholders like myself." The price of human labor will go down, but competition will force the price of goods to go down alongside it. Profit margins will stabilize, but the cost of living and the cost of goods will plummet. It's like the invention of the power loom: it was terrible for the wages of hand-weavers, but it made clothing radically cheaper and more abundant for the rest of humanity. The only way the shareholders keep all the value is if we allow monopolies to form.
The potential difference here is that it might eliminate all human labor which would likely force us into some new kind of economy. Hopefully something better than one where humans waste their lives on manual labor.