I’d go with Cambridge for the experience alone. Letting this AI stuff shake out some more is also a bonus. Amazon could leave you laid off in 6 months. Once you get the masters, you have that for life, and a lot more options.
There will be corporations waiting to employ people the rest of your life. Going back to school later if you change your mind is a lot harder once you’ve started to build a life. Solidify that foundation now while it’s easy and you’re still in school mode.
He didn't ask which experience is better. He said his goal is flexibility and money in the long term.
> Letting this AI stuff shake out some more is also a bonus... There will be corporations waiting to employ people the rest of your life
These two are contradictory. No one knows how this AI stuff will play out. Putting things on hold for 2-3 years right now is incredibly risky. It's one thing if you get a few years experience and then have to pivot to whatever programming has become, but coming in to the industry as a new grade 2-3 years from now is very uncertain.
Going back to school is a lot "harder" later in life because it's a bad deal, you have too much to walk away from. What school has to offer is much less than just staying in place. So I don't think you're making the point you think you are.
School is fun, but apart from a few career paths, graduate school is unnecessary, not to mention a huge money sink. Computer science isn't one of them. I've hired programmers before and never was anyone impressed or even asked about a graduate degree. It's actually often a negative signal (at least at the places I worked) because if someone is too academic they'll have trouble fitting into the corporate culture.
If you had a different offer, I'd say consider it, but Amazon is VERY likely to leave you high and dry within 12 months. Never ever trust that company unless you are completely willing and able to land on your feet when they unceremoniously kick you to the curb tomorrow for no good reason other than some manager needed a scapegoat to make his numbers look good.
Do yourself a favor, stay out of the current mess of a market, stay away from Amazon, and take some extra time to learn more and become more employable.
Also, never trust Reddit. It's like 50% bots and trolls and 50% idiots who have no idea what they're talking about whatsoever but like to make themselves feel like they're smart by saying whatever dumb unfounded idea comes to their head. It's just as bad or worse than Twitter. Would you take advice from random people on Twitter?
Amazon will still be there, if that’s what you decide for your soul afterward. If you made the cut now, you’ll make the cut again in future.
The world is so much bigger than commerce. Even if you choose to work the world of commerce, you’ll have a richer experience of it, and bring more subtle value to your professional career, entering into it with eyes that can see other hues in the outside world.
Plus relationships with a cohort of smart thoughtful humans who are engaging with the world from other perspectives, as you all go into the decades ahead.
I would say, if you can afford it, and have some reasonable reason to continue with masters, stay at uni.
As far as I know, Amazon is not that good of an employer. If you would manage to stick wit them for those two years, it still would be what, ~100k in lost income? And no job on the CV for those two years? But those can be mitigated and are way less certain than achieving a degree in 2 years
My general advice to students is to avoid big companies as your first job. You will be a tiny cog in a huge machinery and will drown in cooperate politics you don't yet understand.
If I was in your position I would try to combine masters with working at a startup or a small company.
Go for the job, you can pick up the equivalent Cambridge courses online in your free time. Tech jobs are a bit tight right now and the situation may become worse 1-2 years down the road when you graduate.
Unless you are a rich AF nepo baby with multiple trust funds. Then definitely go for Cambridge and have fun.
If you have to pay -lets say- 30.000 bucks, rethink.
The additional time of being student will open you newer doors, than if you are already working - assumption: IF the CS master is free, otherwise it may not pay off
Being a student is a huge privilege in most countries accordings to different costs/fees/taxes - so I recommend everyone to keep this status, as long AS IT IS FREE and legally possible.
Regarding "final salary across live" - then: maybe, but very unlikely (eg, how mich people from Cambridge will work in Taxi driving bizz? Not that many)
Regarding "do you miss some additional time to do what you want to try" - then: this time is priceless
I work at an AWS consulting firm and have worked with several employees in the AWS product and professional services team. Overall the general culture I've seen is for employees to get ahead by throwing others under the bus. I know I'm generalizing to all of AWS, but the work culture isn't the best in my opinion to be absorbed in.
This guy is 100% on the mark. Amazon is all about throwing the guy next to you under the bus to get ahead. They will chew you up and spit you out. NEVER work there!
If you want money, status symbols and no life = Amazon. Oh, you might gain some experience that is near useless in a non-FAANG org.
If you value life, freedom, keeping your mind active, living up to your full potential then Cambridge.
In my experience, the hedonic treadmill is the biggest trap. But I only arrived at that conclusion after running furiously for decades and having little to show for it, well except for a burnt out husk.
Cambridge for sure. One aspect to consider is the funding. Would you have to get into years of debt to pay off the Masters? If no, then it is a no brainer.
Context: Been at Google for 10 years. I have a master's in CS/ML myself. Wouldn't trade it for working in FAANG a couple of years earlier.
Cambridge- for a few reasons: (A) Amazon would likely offer you another position if you still wanted to work there. (B) It’ll probably never be easier for you to go to, and do well, in school than at your current age / position. (C) You’ll meet a wide variety of people that’ll broaden your horizons.
Working at Amazon blows, especially as the bottom of the totem pole. If you can afford more college, go do that. You'll probably meet much more interesting people that way.
I’d do whatever is not working at Amazon. At Cambridge you will build yourself as a person and probably make life long friends. By the time you’re done the industry may well be over the AI hype and the job market might make more sense.
In this case you will be well reared to take advantage of it.
I'd definitely go for the Cambridge experience as well. You can always find work at a FAANG when you get back, and most likely it will be easier with your new pedigree. It will also open you doors to join the research groups within those tech companies. Without your degree, these would be close to impossible to get in.
So in terms of flexibility, Cambridge. Tons of companies will preferentially snatch up candidates with prestigious advanced degrees, and many of them will even pay you more. Heck, no one will care if you drop out of your advanced education halfway through. It's easier to go academia -> corporate than the reverse, unless you make a ton of money.
So in terms of long-term money, the question is the oldest one in economics: when is the next market crash? There's two conflicting narratives right now. One is that new AI technologies are going to take a handful of companies to the moon. The other is that these companies are engaged in an incestuous network of investments and the whole thing is about to come crashing down.
If the former is true, or even just a normal economy, the fastest way to make money long-term is to make a lot short-term while living like a monk and investing.
If the latter is true, all the stock you purchase/are granted in the next couple years will lose a big chunk of its value, and you will spend years just getting back to even, so you might as well wait a couple of years and jump in after the next crash.
Amazon sounds like an absolutely terrible place to work, and I'm not convinced it's going to be stable or long-term lucrative for someone just entering the job market now.
I don't think a masters in CS is going to buy you flexibility and money in the long term. Specializing further is the opposite of flexibility. Staying in school longer carries an opportunity cost, and a masters doesn't increase your salary much when it comes to software.
(And if you're aiming to be a Big Deal at an AI lab eventually, a PhD would probably be what you want.)
Do the masters if you think you'd enjoy that particular experience. Go out and find a job of you think you'd enjoy that more.
Go to Cambridge. If you already have an Amazon offer at your skill level, with extra education it's going to be easy to have something similar or even better. Besides, those types of opportunities come rarely in one's life you have to have the correct amount of free time and the ability to take them. Working for a corporation can wait.
Amazon is not a particularly good company to work for, and if you could land an offer there, surely you could land a better offer by the time you graduate.
The opportunity cost here is very minimal if you think slightly longer term. In fact the doors that Cambridge might open down the road could far exceed whatever money you save as a L3/4 at Amazon.
If it was Cambridge vs a frontier lab or HFT offer of > 400-500k then it might be a harder decision, since it's likely that those are still the top jobs you would want after graduation.
Cambridge masters is much more of a once in a lifetime opportunity than Amazon is. People who tell you to go take the job probably are projecting and just want a job themselves.
Cambridge. The experience will be more enjoyable, the networking will be good, and seeing a Masters from Cambridge on a resume would make a bigger impression (to me) than seeing that you worked for Amazon.
+1, ask both if you can defer so that you can keep your options open. (It might be worth asking around or looking around online first to make sure they won't get mad at the question.)
You'll have no problem getting the Amazon job (or similar) with a masters degree from Cambridge afterwards.
I doubt you'll retire wishing you'd worked just one more year at Amazon.
(I have a masters from Imperial. An equally good alternative if you'd prefer to live in London, or prefer somewhere a little more business focused. Google and Amazon both skipped the first interview stage based on my degree.)
Also if you ask Amazon, they're very likely to keep the job offer open for a year.
2. Don't chase perceived prestige. In a few years nobody will care
3. I don't know, but I'm assuming you're young. If you already have a BSc or similar and have been accepted by Cambridge then there are many places you could go. The people you meet and get to know could unlock future flexibility.
4. Don't work for Amazon. Maybe they made you a good offer but, even more so than other corporations, they don't care about you. They'll run you hot and then stick a fork in you without a moment's hesitation.
The thing is I don't have a strong preference since intellectually I would be more interested in Cambridge, but would prefer living in the location for which I've got the Amazon offer - and in addition to that I'm confident that I will be happy with either choice, so for me it's really just about taking the rational choice career-wise
I try not to hold strong opinions, and to be equinanimous, but—don’t let location be the guide. As an Old, let me assure you… 2-3 years is so much less time than it seems to you now. You can live anywhere for the duration of a Master’s program.
If you’re the sort of human who is weighing a choice between locations now (meaning, I assume, major cities; informed mainly by your personal preferences rather than, say, an obligation to stay close to family) then you’ll be able to choose between locations afterward too.
Your career will be fine. It will reinvent itself constantly over the years of your working life anyway.
Amazon’s barely as old as you are; your professors at Cambridge will—themselves, individually—have been thinking seriously for twice that long, about aspects of the human condition that have proven durable over orders of magnitude longer.
The best preparation to stay oriented through rapid change is a firm grounding in the unchanging. Your choice now will change who you are. And as wise as “The Amazon Way” may be, humanity’s collective experience offers a much more diverse intellectual toolkit than just that way of working.
I am strongly against asking an llm to weigh the pros and cons of important life decisions. Flipping a coin or throwing bones on the floor is just as good at making an important decision. No one can know, you can't predict the future. Do what excites you. I was so excited to go to grad school, you find your people. Maybe you love it, maybe you get tired of it. That was a good decision for me, but could be the worst for someone else.
It is depends ob your ability to pursue either of paths later in life. If you choose Amazon you would be earning money while at Cambridge you would be spending money. BUT on the long term after Cambridge you would earn more money.
So, if you see yourself starting at amazon, working a couple years, going to Cambridge later - you will join it with a much better background and experience, you will get more from the education. If you cant do that, go for Cambridge. Amazon wont get you enough experience to sustain on a long term
Masters', taken as a different kind of employment - you don't work for the benefit of others but for your own development.
In other words, take the experience that maximizes your growth, intelligently taken. For example: master the theoretics, yet allocate time to get practical technical experience ("can you do this and that"), and meanwhile build a network with the most worthwhile people you meet...
Don't waste time. Maximize experience in view of what will be useful later. You correctly identified "flexibility".
If the goal is simply money, take the job now and play the corporate game. There’s a lot of money to be made being cut throat.
If you have a genuine love for computer science and the craft of programming then steer clear from the corporate world. It will suck the life out of you.
Masters, or even a PhD might be the play long-term, as software is very likely to become even more commoditized than it is now. A Master degree (even in a non-computing field) or a computing-adjacent PhD might give you expert knowledge required for a field to remain in computing until you decide to retire.
It depends on what you want to do with your life and career. You haven't said what your interests are or what your Master's is going to be in. If you want to be a software engineer then starting career early is better. If you want to go into research then going to university is better. If your Masters is going to be in liberal arts then your prospects of a lucrative job out of Cambridge will be less than having gained two years of professional experience. Since I don't know the specifics, I'll give general advise - decide what's important to you long term and choose the option that aligns with it.
I've not worked at Amazon, but work in other big tech. If you were my son, I'd tell you to pursue Cambridge. Amazon employment isn't that special.
(i've been in industry for 18+ years, went to a name brand school, and live in the heart of silicon valley. Cambridge, i'd imagine, gives you at the least a more interesting story, and at the most a different opportunity set. amazon is now the lower bar of what you should hope to attain after Cambridge.)
Both experiences would help your future employment. I'd encourage grad school unless the Amazon job was something particularly special and perfect. Amazon might be willing to defer your job for a year while you get a MS.
Will your grad school work be done in a year resulting in the equivalent of an MS, or are you looking at a phd or longer timeframe? Shorter timeframe is better, then you can torture yourself again by looking for a job after the MS. Are you studying something you like, is it relevant with today's AI craze or not? Do you feel excited and passionate, do you care about getting an MS?
No one can predict what the job market will be in a year, will we be in a widespread depression? More likely it will be like today, economy ok but unclear future as the world muddles through. Even if you go there now, amazon could lay you and your division off and you'd be scrambling for a new job to stay in the US (presuming you aren't a us citizen). Or maybe your grad school work would make you more employable (or you work on something at amazon that is hot), depends on the area.
I was excited to go to grad school and was glad I went because my undergrad wasn't an especially great school. Then I went to big tech after grad school years passed. If you are excited about grad school and it's not a many year commitment then I'd go that. If you are hot to come to Seattle or where-ever, and you are paid enough to live there, and/or Amazon offers you a job working in something that excites you then do that. No easy answers in life.
This feels like a wishy-washy answer but everyone has to decide for themselves.
I grew up in an environment that valued education over all else, so I pursued post-grad stuff starting 1997 or so and stuck to my guns until way after dot com crashed. Turns out I hated it and ended up wasting a bunch of time and missing out on the exciting stuff, so the advice I would give to my then-self is obviously to not do that. But would I give the same advice to myself if conditions were like today? Thinking maybe not, unless the Amazon thing was thick in the AI infra tech.
Over the long term (assuming the next 10-15 years) getting more experience with building, communicating, and operating systems that solve business problems will get you more cash.
In theory, that masters may boost your starting comp but in the longer term, your comp would likely end up similar. I've worked on numerous teams with a mix of all academic levels and it has never been a huge predictor of comp.
Take this with a grain of salt, it's all anecdotal :).
> EDIT: It's very funny, I've asked the same thing on Reddit and over there 14 out of 15 comments advised me to take the job offer and here on HN the first 3 out of 3 comments tell me to do the masters
Which subreddit did you post on? Try one that's similar Hacker News like maybe programming and I think you'd get similar adobe as HN.
- it's easier to keep going than to come back from a job.
- our industry is changing, heavily, and I have no idea what shape it'll be in in four years time.
- I think that AI is making much of the experience of an entry level redundant. What you get from your masters might make more of a difference.
I'd choose Cambridge, as I am sure that it provides the opportunity to meet a lot of influential people that you might be glad to have in your contacts later on in life, as well as a masters from there will open a lot of doors alone.
No one knows what is going to happen in the long term. No one is going to know what is going to happen in the short term. I'd take the education and put off working as long as possible and see if the market sorts itself out.
Cambridge MS will open doors that will never open for you otherwise. Amazon will be there in 2 years, you won’t have control over your destiny, and things can go much more wrong there with toxic people and no recourse.
Note that Amazon has some cultural misfeatures that require unlearning at other employers.
I've hired ex-Amazon engineers at Google who believe that your job is to fuck over as many other teams as possible in the name of delivering your feature as quickly as possible so you can climb the ladder, and who believe your manager's job is to back you up while you fuck over those other teams and steal credit from other engineers on them. They tend to struggle in Google's more collaborative culture, and I'd imagine they'd also struggle in other companies that are a little less sociopathic. The problem is particularly acute with people who have never worked anywhere but Amazon; older employees coming out of Amazon are more like "Well, that's just how Amazon is, I'll adapt myself to whatever culture my current job has", but junior engineers are often shaped and molded by it because they've never known anything else.
I'm often a big fan of going to industry early because a.) you make more money early which can then compound and b.) you actually do learn a lot of tacit knowledge working in industry, very often more relevant than what you'd learn as a student. But if the choice is between Amazon and Cambridge I would probably do Cambridge.
Do the masters. None of us know what the hell is going to happen with coding as a job right now, but a graduate degree carries weight well outside its narrow area. If coding goes to complete shit and you're in or done school, you'll be in a great position in two years to pivot into something else for a PhD. If you're just working, well you're just another layoff.
I completed my master while working full time but. It was though but necessary as my undergraduate degree was not enough to land software job and I lacked real skill.
I would probably take a job. If AI bubble pops you would be debt free and with 1-2 years of experience.
Don't join amazon, especially as a first job. The reason being, there is usually a shit ton of political stuff going on which you won't see as a new grad. The general way companies like amazon work, they try to bring in non-jaded people like you who have no clue what the fuck they're walking into.
For example, if your TL or manager doesn't like you and is deliberately setting you up to fail, you might not catch it early enough to be prepared. They won't tell you in the open either. They'll deliberately try to hide it and trick you into thinking that you're safe. Once you're in that position, they'll try to force you to work as much as possible and leaving is more difficult.
If you go the Cambridge route, you're getting domain knowledge which could let you get specialist roles (and likely a better support structure) at better companies. It's a no-brainer really. Amazon is desperate for practically any warm body they can get because no one with options wants to work there. If you're ever at a point in your career where you have to join amazon, it means that you played the game wrong and got blindsided by a layoff or something. (Ditto for all the other shitty amazon-like sweatshop companies, Elon companies, etc. Don't forget this: company reputation matters)
Depends on your history, what team you're on at Amazon and what you are planning to study at Cambridge. In general, I would choose Cambridge, but if your undergrad was at a Tier1 university and you are working on a truly cutting edge team at Amazon, then you can consider Amazon.
Definitely take the job, amazon is not an endgame place to work but its a really good stepping stone
You learn a ton of stuff there as a new grad
CS masters degrees are not really a differentiator in the job market, in my experience the exact same jobs are filled by people with bachelors/masters
Employers are not like "we really need someone with a masters, get me someone with a masters"
I would only do grad school if you actually want to do research/applied research
Keep in mind that a lot of the people on this website are late in their careers (and bored by them) and take having a job for granted so doing a masters sounds more exciting to them.
I'm hoping that because it's not in the US, Cambridge wouldn't leave you with crippling debt you can't discharge. If so, big plus.
As everyone has already said, Amazon is fickle, and if you do work there, live on ramen and save up as much cash as you possibly can until that point. This AI hyperscale buildout bubble is about to pop, having a relatively stable University around you while that happens might be a very good thing.
AI itself, will remain useful, it just won't be distorting the entire stock market after the pop.
Cambridge. The job market is absolute trash right now and you managed to get your foot in the door at Amazon anyway. If you can do it now, you can certainly do it with your masters later if needed.
If your situation will allow you to, do the masters. A job at Amazon will always be there for you, but once you get a taste of industry it's hard to go back into academia. Looking back, I wish I'd done more schooling and taken more advantages of the opportunity available to me back then.
Flexibility and money are your long term goals, and the masters opens more doors to that than getting into industry today. What subfield would you be getting your masters in?
You can always get your Masters if you get laid off. Jobs are precious especially for new grads. Do not make the mistake of passing over this job offer, it’s worth so much more than a masters degree. You can always get your master’s later on, for example if you get laid off from Amazon and can’t find another job.
haha, you CAN, but you WONT - here is why:
The thing is, when you leave university and you have tasted the first salary, it usually does not happen that you go back to university and have a 50-60% cut becuse of being a student again.
From my earlier cycles, NONE of the "i-will-finish-MA/MS-later-while-in-the-job" succeeded - and these were people much more intelligent than me: The minute you leave university and say "i-will-be-back", the future you imagine will never matrialize in 99.5% cases
Jobs are precious right now, especially at a name brand big tech company. That is worth much more than a masters degree. Having real job experience is hard to get right now so forgoing that for further education that is only incrementally useful over a bachelors degree is not worth it
I’d go with Cambridge for the experience alone. Letting this AI stuff shake out some more is also a bonus. Amazon could leave you laid off in 6 months. Once you get the masters, you have that for life, and a lot more options.
There will be corporations waiting to employ people the rest of your life. Going back to school later if you change your mind is a lot harder once you’ve started to build a life. Solidify that foundation now while it’s easy and you’re still in school mode.
> I’d go with Cambridge for the experience alone
He didn't ask which experience is better. He said his goal is flexibility and money in the long term.
> Letting this AI stuff shake out some more is also a bonus... There will be corporations waiting to employ people the rest of your life
These two are contradictory. No one knows how this AI stuff will play out. Putting things on hold for 2-3 years right now is incredibly risky. It's one thing if you get a few years experience and then have to pivot to whatever programming has become, but coming in to the industry as a new grade 2-3 years from now is very uncertain.
Going back to school is a lot "harder" later in life because it's a bad deal, you have too much to walk away from. What school has to offer is much less than just staying in place. So I don't think you're making the point you think you are.
School is fun, but apart from a few career paths, graduate school is unnecessary, not to mention a huge money sink. Computer science isn't one of them. I've hired programmers before and never was anyone impressed or even asked about a graduate degree. It's actually often a negative signal (at least at the places I worked) because if someone is too academic they'll have trouble fitting into the corporate culture.
Masters degree in the UK are one year.
No they are not.
Do NOT work for Amazon!
If you had a different offer, I'd say consider it, but Amazon is VERY likely to leave you high and dry within 12 months. Never ever trust that company unless you are completely willing and able to land on your feet when they unceremoniously kick you to the curb tomorrow for no good reason other than some manager needed a scapegoat to make his numbers look good.
Do yourself a favor, stay out of the current mess of a market, stay away from Amazon, and take some extra time to learn more and become more employable.
Also, never trust Reddit. It's like 50% bots and trolls and 50% idiots who have no idea what they're talking about whatsoever but like to make themselves feel like they're smart by saying whatever dumb unfounded idea comes to their head. It's just as bad or worse than Twitter. Would you take advice from random people on Twitter?
Cambridge. Train the human, not the machine.
Amazon will still be there, if that’s what you decide for your soul afterward. If you made the cut now, you’ll make the cut again in future.
The world is so much bigger than commerce. Even if you choose to work the world of commerce, you’ll have a richer experience of it, and bring more subtle value to your professional career, entering into it with eyes that can see other hues in the outside world.
Plus relationships with a cohort of smart thoughtful humans who are engaging with the world from other perspectives, as you all go into the decades ahead.
This! So long as OP is under 40.
I would say, if you can afford it, and have some reasonable reason to continue with masters, stay at uni.
As far as I know, Amazon is not that good of an employer. If you would manage to stick wit them for those two years, it still would be what, ~100k in lost income? And no job on the CV for those two years? But those can be mitigated and are way less certain than achieving a degree in 2 years
I'd chose Cambridge every time. But that's because I think I'd enjoy the time on the campus much more than in the corporate hell of Amazon. YMMV.
My general advice to students is to avoid big companies as your first job. You will be a tiny cog in a huge machinery and will drown in cooperate politics you don't yet understand.
If I was in your position I would try to combine masters with working at a startup or a small company.
Go for the job, you can pick up the equivalent Cambridge courses online in your free time. Tech jobs are a bit tight right now and the situation may become worse 1-2 years down the road when you graduate.
Unless you are a rich AF nepo baby with multiple trust funds. Then definitely go for Cambridge and have fun.
If the CS master is free(!), then go for it.
If you have to pay -lets say- 30.000 bucks, rethink.
The additional time of being student will open you newer doors, than if you are already working - assumption: IF the CS master is free, otherwise it may not pay off
Being a student is a huge privilege in most countries accordings to different costs/fees/taxes - so I recommend everyone to keep this status, as long AS IT IS FREE and legally possible.
The opportunity cost of that privilege is still non negligible, even if you (like in Denmark) get paid to do your tuition free degree.
Regarding "final salary across live" - then: maybe, but very unlikely (eg, how mich people from Cambridge will work in Taxi driving bizz? Not that many)
Regarding "do you miss some additional time to do what you want to try" - then: this time is priceless
Reddit is full of desperate crabs pulling you down into the bucket. Go to Cambridge, that's literally a once in a lifetime opportunity.
Masters programs are much less competitive than undergrad. It’ll still be there.
(Funny. What is meant there with "crabs"? Is it a typical behaviour of crabs to hold each other (so getting stuck "in a bucket", in the said case)?)
Supposedly yes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality
>Go to Cambridge, that's literally a once in a lifetime opportunity.
For what exactly?
I work at an AWS consulting firm and have worked with several employees in the AWS product and professional services team. Overall the general culture I've seen is for employees to get ahead by throwing others under the bus. I know I'm generalizing to all of AWS, but the work culture isn't the best in my opinion to be absorbed in.
This guy is 100% on the mark. Amazon is all about throwing the guy next to you under the bus to get ahead. They will chew you up and spit you out. NEVER work there!
Honest questions: What do "get ahead" and "throw under the bus" mean, exactly? Any examples?
Like all engineering answers: It depends
If you want money, status symbols and no life = Amazon. Oh, you might gain some experience that is near useless in a non-FAANG org.
If you value life, freedom, keeping your mind active, living up to your full potential then Cambridge.
In my experience, the hedonic treadmill is the biggest trap. But I only arrived at that conclusion after running furiously for decades and having little to show for it, well except for a burnt out husk.
Take the job. You can do the masters after. The job offer might not still be there.
Cambridge for sure. One aspect to consider is the funding. Would you have to get into years of debt to pay off the Masters? If no, then it is a no brainer.
Context: Been at Google for 10 years. I have a master's in CS/ML myself. Wouldn't trade it for working in FAANG a couple of years earlier.
Cambridge- for a few reasons: (A) Amazon would likely offer you another position if you still wanted to work there. (B) It’ll probably never be easier for you to go to, and do well, in school than at your current age / position. (C) You’ll meet a wide variety of people that’ll broaden your horizons.
Working at Amazon blows, especially as the bottom of the totem pole. If you can afford more college, go do that. You'll probably meet much more interesting people that way.
I’d do whatever is not working at Amazon. At Cambridge you will build yourself as a person and probably make life long friends. By the time you’re done the industry may well be over the AI hype and the job market might make more sense.
In this case you will be well reared to take advantage of it.
I'd definitely go for the Cambridge experience as well. You can always find work at a FAANG when you get back, and most likely it will be easier with your new pedigree. It will also open you doors to join the research groups within those tech companies. Without your degree, these would be close to impossible to get in.
So in terms of flexibility, Cambridge. Tons of companies will preferentially snatch up candidates with prestigious advanced degrees, and many of them will even pay you more. Heck, no one will care if you drop out of your advanced education halfway through. It's easier to go academia -> corporate than the reverse, unless you make a ton of money.
So in terms of long-term money, the question is the oldest one in economics: when is the next market crash? There's two conflicting narratives right now. One is that new AI technologies are going to take a handful of companies to the moon. The other is that these companies are engaged in an incestuous network of investments and the whole thing is about to come crashing down.
If the former is true, or even just a normal economy, the fastest way to make money long-term is to make a lot short-term while living like a monk and investing.
If the latter is true, all the stock you purchase/are granted in the next couple years will lose a big chunk of its value, and you will spend years just getting back to even, so you might as well wait a couple of years and jump in after the next crash.
Neither?
Amazon sounds like an absolutely terrible place to work, and I'm not convinced it's going to be stable or long-term lucrative for someone just entering the job market now.
I don't think a masters in CS is going to buy you flexibility and money in the long term. Specializing further is the opposite of flexibility. Staying in school longer carries an opportunity cost, and a masters doesn't increase your salary much when it comes to software.
(And if you're aiming to be a Big Deal at an AI lab eventually, a PhD would probably be what you want.)
Do the masters if you think you'd enjoy that particular experience. Go out and find a job of you think you'd enjoy that more.
Go to Cambridge. If you already have an Amazon offer at your skill level, with extra education it's going to be easy to have something similar or even better. Besides, those types of opportunities come rarely in one's life you have to have the correct amount of free time and the ability to take them. Working for a corporation can wait.
Cambridge no brainer.
Amazon is not a particularly good company to work for, and if you could land an offer there, surely you could land a better offer by the time you graduate.
The opportunity cost here is very minimal if you think slightly longer term. In fact the doors that Cambridge might open down the road could far exceed whatever money you save as a L3/4 at Amazon.
If it was Cambridge vs a frontier lab or HFT offer of > 400-500k then it might be a harder decision, since it's likely that those are still the top jobs you would want after graduation.
Cambridge masters is much more of a once in a lifetime opportunity than Amazon is. People who tell you to go take the job probably are projecting and just want a job themselves.
Go to Cambridge, for the school, but IMO more important, for the networking.
Meet as many people as you can, go to social events, these connections could help you for the rest of your life.
It becomes much harder to go back to school after a while. Responsibilities pile up, you fall out of eligibility for funding.
I loved doing a masters as a mature student, but I was very lucky to be able to do so.
School won't always be so easy. Do school.
Also, Amazon are gross.
Cambridge. The experience will be more enjoyable, the networking will be good, and seeing a Masters from Cambridge on a resume would make a bigger impression (to me) than seeing that you worked for Amazon.
Can you defer enrollment in your masters program? Then you can go to Amazon, and the program is waiting for you if you don’t like it or get laid off.
+1, ask both if you can defer so that you can keep your options open. (It might be worth asking around or looking around online first to make sure they won't get mad at the question.)
Cambridge.
You'll have no problem getting the Amazon job (or similar) with a masters degree from Cambridge afterwards.
I doubt you'll retire wishing you'd worked just one more year at Amazon.
(I have a masters from Imperial. An equally good alternative if you'd prefer to live in London, or prefer somewhere a little more business focused. Google and Amazon both skipped the first interview stage based on my degree.)
Also if you ask Amazon, they're very likely to keep the job offer open for a year.
1. Don't restrict yourself to two options.
2. Don't chase perceived prestige. In a few years nobody will care
3. I don't know, but I'm assuming you're young. If you already have a BSc or similar and have been accepted by Cambridge then there are many places you could go. The people you meet and get to know could unlock future flexibility.
4. Don't work for Amazon. Maybe they made you a good offer but, even more so than other corporations, they don't care about you. They'll run you hot and then stick a fork in you without a moment's hesitation.
flip a coin, the option you want while the coin is in the air is what you should do.
Alternatively, flip a coin, and if you don't like the result, you know what you really wanted.
The thing is I don't have a strong preference since intellectually I would be more interested in Cambridge, but would prefer living in the location for which I've got the Amazon offer - and in addition to that I'm confident that I will be happy with either choice, so for me it's really just about taking the rational choice career-wise
I try not to hold strong opinions, and to be equinanimous, but—don’t let location be the guide. As an Old, let me assure you… 2-3 years is so much less time than it seems to you now. You can live anywhere for the duration of a Master’s program.
If you’re the sort of human who is weighing a choice between locations now (meaning, I assume, major cities; informed mainly by your personal preferences rather than, say, an obligation to stay close to family) then you’ll be able to choose between locations afterward too.
Your career will be fine. It will reinvent itself constantly over the years of your working life anyway.
Amazon’s barely as old as you are; your professors at Cambridge will—themselves, individually—have been thinking seriously for twice that long, about aspects of the human condition that have proven durable over orders of magnitude longer.
The best preparation to stay oriented through rapid change is a firm grounding in the unchanging. Your choice now will change who you are. And as wise as “The Amazon Way” may be, humanity’s collective experience offers a much more diverse intellectual toolkit than just that way of working.
if you want to offload the decision to a decision engine, might i recommend the following prompt to the LLM of your choice:
> "which should i choose: 1 word only"
the comments are already universally aligned. but, it now seems you want a defense of your preference.
I am strongly against asking an llm to weigh the pros and cons of important life decisions. Flipping a coin or throwing bones on the floor is just as good at making an important decision. No one can know, you can't predict the future. Do what excites you. I was so excited to go to grad school, you find your people. Maybe you love it, maybe you get tired of it. That was a good decision for me, but could be the worst for someone else.
++1
Good instrument from PT!
Another one: "Try to think forward 5 years, what would you regret more?" - in this case: - Cambridge Degree
- Amazon Job
(WOW, while doing this exercise it went very clear for me!)
This is actually good advice i'm not gonna lie
It is depends ob your ability to pursue either of paths later in life. If you choose Amazon you would be earning money while at Cambridge you would be spending money. BUT on the long term after Cambridge you would earn more money.
So, if you see yourself starting at amazon, working a couple years, going to Cambridge later - you will join it with a much better background and experience, you will get more from the education. If you cant do that, go for Cambridge. Amazon wont get you enough experience to sustain on a long term
Masters', taken as a different kind of employment - you don't work for the benefit of others but for your own development.
In other words, take the experience that maximizes your growth, intelligently taken. For example: master the theoretics, yet allocate time to get practical technical experience ("can you do this and that"), and meanwhile build a network with the most worthwhile people you meet...
Don't waste time. Maximize experience in view of what will be useful later. You correctly identified "flexibility".
If the goal is simply money, take the job now and play the corporate game. There’s a lot of money to be made being cut throat.
If you have a genuine love for computer science and the craft of programming then steer clear from the corporate world. It will suck the life out of you.
if the goal is simply money, the cs masters is probably still the better long-term bet.
Masters, or even a PhD might be the play long-term, as software is very likely to become even more commoditized than it is now. A Master degree (even in a non-computing field) or a computing-adjacent PhD might give you expert knowledge required for a field to remain in computing until you decide to retire.
It depends on what you want to do with your life and career. You haven't said what your interests are or what your Master's is going to be in. If you want to be a software engineer then starting career early is better. If you want to go into research then going to university is better. If your Masters is going to be in liberal arts then your prospects of a lucrative job out of Cambridge will be less than having gained two years of professional experience. Since I don't know the specifics, I'll give general advise - decide what's important to you long term and choose the option that aligns with it.
I've not worked at Amazon, but work in other big tech. If you were my son, I'd tell you to pursue Cambridge. Amazon employment isn't that special.
(i've been in industry for 18+ years, went to a name brand school, and live in the heart of silicon valley. Cambridge, i'd imagine, gives you at the least a more interesting story, and at the most a different opportunity set. amazon is now the lower bar of what you should hope to attain after Cambridge.)
Both experiences would help your future employment. I'd encourage grad school unless the Amazon job was something particularly special and perfect. Amazon might be willing to defer your job for a year while you get a MS.
Will your grad school work be done in a year resulting in the equivalent of an MS, or are you looking at a phd or longer timeframe? Shorter timeframe is better, then you can torture yourself again by looking for a job after the MS. Are you studying something you like, is it relevant with today's AI craze or not? Do you feel excited and passionate, do you care about getting an MS?
No one can predict what the job market will be in a year, will we be in a widespread depression? More likely it will be like today, economy ok but unclear future as the world muddles through. Even if you go there now, amazon could lay you and your division off and you'd be scrambling for a new job to stay in the US (presuming you aren't a us citizen). Or maybe your grad school work would make you more employable (or you work on something at amazon that is hot), depends on the area.
I was excited to go to grad school and was glad I went because my undergrad wasn't an especially great school. Then I went to big tech after grad school years passed. If you are excited about grad school and it's not a many year commitment then I'd go that. If you are hot to come to Seattle or where-ever, and you are paid enough to live there, and/or Amazon offers you a job working in something that excites you then do that. No easy answers in life.
This feels like a wishy-washy answer but everyone has to decide for themselves.
Yeah but you take it for granted because you've been in the industry so long
Obviously its not that exciting to an 18 year veteran
I grew up in an environment that valued education over all else, so I pursued post-grad stuff starting 1997 or so and stuck to my guns until way after dot com crashed. Turns out I hated it and ended up wasting a bunch of time and missing out on the exciting stuff, so the advice I would give to my then-self is obviously to not do that. But would I give the same advice to myself if conditions were like today? Thinking maybe not, unless the Amazon thing was thick in the AI infra tech.
Aligning with your goals, take Amazon.
Over the long term (assuming the next 10-15 years) getting more experience with building, communicating, and operating systems that solve business problems will get you more cash.
In theory, that masters may boost your starting comp but in the longer term, your comp would likely end up similar. I've worked on numerous teams with a mix of all academic levels and it has never been a huge predictor of comp.
Take this with a grain of salt, it's all anecdotal :).
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Congrats on 2 wonderful options!
> EDIT: It's very funny, I've asked the same thing on Reddit and over there 14 out of 15 comments advised me to take the job offer and here on HN the first 3 out of 3 comments tell me to do the masters
Which subreddit did you post on? Try one that's similar Hacker News like maybe programming and I think you'd get similar adobe as HN.
Either way, I suggested you try to build and launch 1 product per month. For example, someone launched a SAAS for excel formulas that now makes +$2M.
I believe Master at Cambridge is harder to get accepted again than at Amazon.
There are plenty of opportunities other than Amazon, I am not sure if the same could be said for Cambridge.
That is assuming you have no financial burden.
Cambridge will give you more options in the long term. It will give you connections that Amazon cannot.
Probably masters. Few reasons:
- it's easier to keep going than to come back from a job. - our industry is changing, heavily, and I have no idea what shape it'll be in in four years time. - I think that AI is making much of the experience of an entry level redundant. What you get from your masters might make more of a difference.
I'd choose Cambridge, as I am sure that it provides the opportunity to meet a lot of influential people that you might be glad to have in your contacts later on in life, as well as a masters from there will open a lot of doors alone.
Avoid Amazon
No one knows what is going to happen in the long term. No one is going to know what is going to happen in the short term. I'd take the education and put off working as long as possible and see if the market sorts itself out.
If your goals are flexibility and money I'd adgue the masters deprives you of both.
Cambridge MS will open doors that will never open for you otherwise. Amazon will be there in 2 years, you won’t have control over your destiny, and things can go much more wrong there with toxic people and no recourse.
Note that Amazon has some cultural misfeatures that require unlearning at other employers.
I've hired ex-Amazon engineers at Google who believe that your job is to fuck over as many other teams as possible in the name of delivering your feature as quickly as possible so you can climb the ladder, and who believe your manager's job is to back you up while you fuck over those other teams and steal credit from other engineers on them. They tend to struggle in Google's more collaborative culture, and I'd imagine they'd also struggle in other companies that are a little less sociopathic. The problem is particularly acute with people who have never worked anywhere but Amazon; older employees coming out of Amazon are more like "Well, that's just how Amazon is, I'll adapt myself to whatever culture my current job has", but junior engineers are often shaped and molded by it because they've never known anything else.
I'm often a big fan of going to industry early because a.) you make more money early which can then compound and b.) you actually do learn a lot of tacit knowledge working in industry, very often more relevant than what you'd learn as a student. But if the choice is between Amazon and Cambridge I would probably do Cambridge.
I’d go for Amazon as a no brainer. But you are probably one of the 10x programmers so maybe your interests differ.
You gave too little information for us to recommend effectively.
Do the masters. None of us know what the hell is going to happen with coding as a job right now, but a graduate degree carries weight well outside its narrow area. If coding goes to complete shit and you're in or done school, you'll be in a great position in two years to pivot into something else for a PhD. If you're just working, well you're just another layoff.
I completed my master while working full time but. It was though but necessary as my undergraduate degree was not enough to land software job and I lacked real skill.
I would probably take a job. If AI bubble pops you would be debt free and with 1-2 years of experience.
Don't join amazon, especially as a first job. The reason being, there is usually a shit ton of political stuff going on which you won't see as a new grad. The general way companies like amazon work, they try to bring in non-jaded people like you who have no clue what the fuck they're walking into.
For example, if your TL or manager doesn't like you and is deliberately setting you up to fail, you might not catch it early enough to be prepared. They won't tell you in the open either. They'll deliberately try to hide it and trick you into thinking that you're safe. Once you're in that position, they'll try to force you to work as much as possible and leaving is more difficult.
If you go the Cambridge route, you're getting domain knowledge which could let you get specialist roles (and likely a better support structure) at better companies. It's a no-brainer really. Amazon is desperate for practically any warm body they can get because no one with options wants to work there. If you're ever at a point in your career where you have to join amazon, it means that you played the game wrong and got blindsided by a layoff or something. (Ditto for all the other shitty amazon-like sweatshop companies, Elon companies, etc. Don't forget this: company reputation matters)
if you're used to the money, it's much harder to go back to studying. Also if you get to have a family you are unlikely to start studying again.
studying typically requires you to think broader, while companies usually want you to take a very specific role.
Get the masters. Jobs at Amazon are not immune from layoffs.
Depends on your history, what team you're on at Amazon and what you are planning to study at Cambridge. In general, I would choose Cambridge, but if your undergrad was at a Tier1 university and you are working on a truly cutting edge team at Amazon, then you can consider Amazon.
Do what you want to do
Both options excite me for different reasons - so what now? :)
if you're money interested probably amazon -- they might fire you in a few months but it's a brand name and you'll be onto a new job in no time
Vs grad school is expensive and another 2 years of no income?
But idk my friend, amazon sucked a long time ago, it sucks even more now. sorry to be a troll
Definitely take the job, amazon is not an endgame place to work but its a really good stepping stone
You learn a ton of stuff there as a new grad
CS masters degrees are not really a differentiator in the job market, in my experience the exact same jobs are filled by people with bachelors/masters
Employers are not like "we really need someone with a masters, get me someone with a masters"
I would only do grad school if you actually want to do research/applied research
Keep in mind that a lot of the people on this website are late in their careers (and bored by them) and take having a job for granted so doing a masters sounds more exciting to them.
I'm hoping that because it's not in the US, Cambridge wouldn't leave you with crippling debt you can't discharge. If so, big plus.
As everyone has already said, Amazon is fickle, and if you do work there, live on ramen and save up as much cash as you possibly can until that point. This AI hyperscale buildout bubble is about to pop, having a relatively stable University around you while that happens might be a very good thing.
AI itself, will remain useful, it just won't be distorting the entire stock market after the pop.
100% amazon. real world experience is worth 10x more than degrees.
This ^
That said… Amazon does suck as a company to work for but you will learn a lot of useful and transferable skills. Stay long enough, but not too long.
Cambridge. The job market is absolute trash right now and you managed to get your foot in the door at Amazon anyway. If you can do it now, you can certainly do it with your masters later if needed.
Is it possible to do both?
In my country you can study at weekends
If not, then take job imo.
Salary and real world experience >> academic bullshit
If your situation will allow you to, do the masters. A job at Amazon will always be there for you, but once you get a taste of industry it's hard to go back into academia. Looking back, I wish I'd done more schooling and taken more advantages of the opportunity available to me back then.
Flexibility and money are your long term goals, and the masters opens more doors to that than getting into industry today. What subfield would you be getting your masters in?
Take the job. Save a lot of money.
Nothing more freeing than being young with good savings. Puts life on easy mode.
TAKE THE JOB OFFER.
You can always get your Masters if you get laid off. Jobs are precious especially for new grads. Do not make the mistake of passing over this job offer, it’s worth so much more than a masters degree. You can always get your master’s later on, for example if you get laid off from Amazon and can’t find another job.
haha, you CAN, but you WONT - here is why: The thing is, when you leave university and you have tasted the first salary, it usually does not happen that you go back to university and have a 50-60% cut becuse of being a student again. From my earlier cycles, NONE of the "i-will-finish-MA/MS-later-while-in-the-job" succeeded - and these were people much more intelligent than me: The minute you leave university and say "i-will-be-back", the future you imagine will never matrialize in 99.5% cases
Jobs are precious right now, especially at a name brand big tech company. That is worth much more than a masters degree. Having real job experience is hard to get right now so forgoing that for further education that is only incrementally useful over a bachelors degree is not worth it