I could be wrong, but I just don’t see how trying to detect LLM generated texts is ever going to work. The only thing that makes any sense if you truly want to have confidence a human wrote it is some type of “proof of work“ system. I think there’s a lot of interesting ways to approach the proof of work problem with different pros and cons, but that is where our energy should be focused if we seriously want to solve this problem.
I think figuring out if a text is AI-made is a losing battle. What could work is gauging how much effort went into writing the text, regardless of who the author might be. What's easy today is generating mountains of text that are extremely hard to read. What requires effort is knowing how to engage the reader, how to keep out extraneous information, and how to keep the text as short as possible without losing details. That needs effort, with or without AI.
Text is simply not information dense enough to be able to decode some arbitrary signal of provenance from it. Sure you might be able to detect today's tells (particular sentence structures preferred by Claude, phrases, etc) to get you some arbitrary chance percentage it was machine generated, but it's a bad fiction to perpetuate that any of this is anything more than tarot card reading.
Images, absolutely, there are tell-tale artifacts from today's generators that simply aren't emitted by "natural" paths to create them, and you can "detect AI" with high confidence (for now). Words, no, the signal is far too sparse and we are well into undetectable sophistication with today's models, let alone tomorrow's.
Signal is easier to detect with more data to work with.
Largely AI generated books are a vastly different situation than a one paragraph homework assignment. But multiple rounds of homework assignments would change the accuracy.
There are two problems, false positives and changing the LLM's pattern.
It's really easy to have a false positive and false positives can be very harmful if the person using the detector isn't aware of that risk.
It's also very easy to change the pattern of LLM output. You can provide basic prompting that will significantly change the structure of the output. For example, having it utilize the Wikipedia article on signs of AI writing and avoid everything it describes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Signs_of_AI_writing
> but it's a bad fiction to perpetuate that any of this is anything more than tarot card reading.
Hard disagree. LLMs (especially base ones, that only received pre-training) can produce output that is undistinguishable from human writing (because that's what they were trained to do).
But commercial chat models are specifically tuned in a way that maximizes user engagement.
It's that specific tuning that is very easy to spot when reading AI slop, and that's not surprising that it's easy to spot automatically either.
And I don't think that's going to change anytime soon, unless their incentives change.
(We can say exactly the same thing about man-made stuff optimized for a specific purpose, like stock photography, clickbait titles or industrial food: they aren't stereotypical because their creator lacks the skill to make them otherwise, they are like that because that's what works best).
They're also designed to not offend anybody, so their output tends to be very bland even compared to the most milquetoast of human beings. I was only surprised once when ChatGPT responded with an enthusiastic "hell yes" seemingly organically, but 99.9% of the time these AI services clearly are instructed and trained to provide flavorless word vomit. I don't think there's a technical reason why an LLM couldn't produce totally convincing output, but internet grifters don't need to go through that trouble. It's like how most phone, email, and social media scams come off as completely transparent to most of us, but that's the whole point; we're not the target audience of the scams. Readers looking for substance, nuance, and real opinions aren't going to notice if something with written by an LLM – unless there are some cliche punctuation tells.
It does mean that this will have a drift problem if it's just trained on the idiosyncrasies of model fine tuning. That's fine! But it is something to be aware of.
i think one thing overlooked by this perspective is that many of a detectors adversaries are not that sophisticated. so despite this i think it is a useful thing to try to do. particularly when people are trying to do fraud which will often having to use abliterated models and generally trying to be as economical in their efforts
Sure it is; we do it all the time, and then we modify each other's etc, etc; english we speak today was spoke yesterday waspake the same in yesteryears; we have no trouble dating english or other languages to a time.
A better argument is people themselves are just too influenced by reading that they'll sound like LLMs in a couple of years.
The classifier does not seem so big, I wonder if something like it for English could be used in a browser extension to run against every single paragraph being displayed ?
If the internet is going to drown in LLM text it would be nice to have tools to detect that automatically just like we have adblockers today to avoid wasting time on ads.
The article mentions that AI texts are often caught by multiple models, so hopefully text from newer LLMs could still be caught without updating the model?
I think the fundamental problem is that training current SOTA AI models is very expensive. If a simple "classical" model can detect them, presumably at much lower algorithmic cost, then why wouldn't the model trainers use these same tools to feed back into their models to improve them at low cost to make them better? It's an arms race. Any cheap pattern can and presumably will be used to retrain if it becomes and effective way to catch AI.
The problems are simply too great if an LLM detector has any false positives at all. Imagine how soul-crushing writing an entire dissertation by hand and having it rejected because some “good enough” LLM detector decides you write too much like an AI.
I had done the same for classifying and generating bookmarks of thousands of datasheets, along with a very naive yolo-based classificator (to detect pages made out of diagrams and pictures mostly).
Done with GLM-OCR, I had to watch text sloooowly crawl out of the llm and still have to live with hallucinations and the model not following the schema
there is not much point in detecting LLM generated text, in that humans are useing info from LLM's, but obfusicting it's origin, with there own garble, along with purely human garble, and almost(but not quite) human LLM product meaning that the threshold for rejecting "data" must be lowered, which personaly means a very very low tollerance for wierdness, except where it can yield imediate possitive cash flow
for the rest I do my own research and verification thank you very much
I could be wrong, but I just don’t see how trying to detect LLM generated texts is ever going to work. The only thing that makes any sense if you truly want to have confidence a human wrote it is some type of “proof of work“ system. I think there’s a lot of interesting ways to approach the proof of work problem with different pros and cons, but that is where our energy should be focused if we seriously want to solve this problem.
I think figuring out if a text is AI-made is a losing battle. What could work is gauging how much effort went into writing the text, regardless of who the author might be. What's easy today is generating mountains of text that are extremely hard to read. What requires effort is knowing how to engage the reader, how to keep out extraneous information, and how to keep the text as short as possible without losing details. That needs effort, with or without AI.
Text is simply not information dense enough to be able to decode some arbitrary signal of provenance from it. Sure you might be able to detect today's tells (particular sentence structures preferred by Claude, phrases, etc) to get you some arbitrary chance percentage it was machine generated, but it's a bad fiction to perpetuate that any of this is anything more than tarot card reading.
Images, absolutely, there are tell-tale artifacts from today's generators that simply aren't emitted by "natural" paths to create them, and you can "detect AI" with high confidence (for now). Words, no, the signal is far too sparse and we are well into undetectable sophistication with today's models, let alone tomorrow's.
Signal is easier to detect with more data to work with.
Largely AI generated books are a vastly different situation than a one paragraph homework assignment. But multiple rounds of homework assignments would change the accuracy.
There are two problems, false positives and changing the LLM's pattern.
It's really easy to have a false positive and false positives can be very harmful if the person using the detector isn't aware of that risk.
It's also very easy to change the pattern of LLM output. You can provide basic prompting that will significantly change the structure of the output. For example, having it utilize the Wikipedia article on signs of AI writing and avoid everything it describes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Signs_of_AI_writing
> but it's a bad fiction to perpetuate that any of this is anything more than tarot card reading.
Hard disagree. LLMs (especially base ones, that only received pre-training) can produce output that is undistinguishable from human writing (because that's what they were trained to do).
But commercial chat models are specifically tuned in a way that maximizes user engagement. It's that specific tuning that is very easy to spot when reading AI slop, and that's not surprising that it's easy to spot automatically either. And I don't think that's going to change anytime soon, unless their incentives change.
(We can say exactly the same thing about man-made stuff optimized for a specific purpose, like stock photography, clickbait titles or industrial food: they aren't stereotypical because their creator lacks the skill to make them otherwise, they are like that because that's what works best).
> especially base ones
Did you actually try them? I did.They generated even more "slopey" text than instruction-tuned ones.
They're also designed to not offend anybody, so their output tends to be very bland even compared to the most milquetoast of human beings. I was only surprised once when ChatGPT responded with an enthusiastic "hell yes" seemingly organically, but 99.9% of the time these AI services clearly are instructed and trained to provide flavorless word vomit. I don't think there's a technical reason why an LLM couldn't produce totally convincing output, but internet grifters don't need to go through that trouble. It's like how most phone, email, and social media scams come off as completely transparent to most of us, but that's the whole point; we're not the target audience of the scams. Readers looking for substance, nuance, and real opinions aren't going to notice if something with written by an LLM – unless there are some cliche punctuation tells.
It does mean that this will have a drift problem if it's just trained on the idiosyncrasies of model fine tuning. That's fine! But it is something to be aware of.
i think one thing overlooked by this perspective is that many of a detectors adversaries are not that sophisticated. so despite this i think it is a useful thing to try to do. particularly when people are trying to do fraud which will often having to use abliterated models and generally trying to be as economical in their efforts
Sure it is; we do it all the time, and then we modify each other's etc, etc; english we speak today was spoke yesterday waspake the same in yesteryears; we have no trouble dating english or other languages to a time.
A better argument is people themselves are just too influenced by reading that they'll sound like LLMs in a couple of years.
It depends on how much text. For example, chardet often falls down on short strings, but 1K characters it nails it.
The classifier does not seem so big, I wonder if something like it for English could be used in a browser extension to run against every single paragraph being displayed ?
If the internet is going to drown in LLM text it would be nice to have tools to detect that automatically just like we have adblockers today to avoid wasting time on ads.
(the article was a good read, thanks!)
I assume different models will have different distribution, so it has to be kept updated?
The article mentions that AI texts are often caught by multiple models, so hopefully text from newer LLMs could still be caught without updating the model?
I think the fundamental problem is that training current SOTA AI models is very expensive. If a simple "classical" model can detect them, presumably at much lower algorithmic cost, then why wouldn't the model trainers use these same tools to feed back into their models to improve them at low cost to make them better? It's an arms race. Any cheap pattern can and presumably will be used to retrain if it becomes and effective way to catch AI.
It’s an arms race where the AI companies are at an extreme disadvantage due to relative training costs.
The problems are simply too great if an LLM detector has any false positives at all. Imagine how soul-crushing writing an entire dissertation by hand and having it rejected because some “good enough” LLM detector decides you write too much like an AI.
I had done the same for classifying and generating bookmarks of thousands of datasheets, along with a very naive yolo-based classificator (to detect pages made out of diagrams and pictures mostly).
Done with GLM-OCR, I had to watch text sloooowly crawl out of the llm and still have to live with hallucinations and the model not following the schema
I wonder about this technique vs simple SVM classifiers: https://x.com/rosmine/status/2056406399471558872?s=20
This article is about training a classifier to detect synthetic text.
The link you sent is for generating text which attempts to defeat those classifiers.
there is not much point in detecting LLM generated text, in that humans are useing info from LLM's, but obfusicting it's origin, with there own garble, along with purely human garble, and almost(but not quite) human LLM product meaning that the threshold for rejecting "data" must be lowered, which personaly means a very very low tollerance for wierdness, except where it can yield imediate possitive cash flow for the rest I do my own research and verification thank you very much
Anything too “clever” and “snappy” = instaLLM
This is also how I pretty much filter LLM generated text in my head.
today, sure.
Tomorrow, the LLMs will be training the humans thought patterns that will directly start skewing their natural writing.
Generation alpha is going to have a lot of trouble if we keep perpetuating the myth that you can really interpret text in an ongoing fashion.