This kind of thing just makes me think Apple will get to a point where they have good enough local models and good enough harnesses for doing things, and most normal people will just use them… Does the LLM become another interface to computing?
I have thought this for a while. Computing 1.0 meant that we needed to learn the computer’s language to interact with the computer fully. Computing 2.0 is that now the computer has learned our language instead.
i believe that for most people on the street, for most tasks, a Chat GPT 3.5 era LLM is sufficient enough. sprinkle in tool calling and other things, and that becomes enough. if you can prioritize that level of a model on-device (baking it in etc), then you can bifurcate AI users between those unwilling to pay and those who are willing to pay A LOT for frontier model performance.
Yup, it's the main reason I don't use LM studio more. I only use it to try out new models/quants, then use llama.cpp directly to host them. LM Studio also doesn't do stuff like audio input and often has bugs that pure llama.cpp doesn't so it can be a net negative for certain use cases.
I'm interested in your thought process. How did you get from his initial statement opening of "A friendly reminder ..." to thinking that this was a scandal?
It's a common discussion trope to imply malfeasance in response to good news, which is a way to non-constructively shut down a conversation particularly without elaboration. In this particular case I legit didn't understand what the OP was actually implying because they did not elaborate.
Sure. I still don't think it's particularly controversial to acknowledge that the two don't necessarily align either, and that neither really incentivizes the other.
Less unanimous and debatable, but many would say they more often do not align than the opposite.
Ultimately, the onus at every VC backed local LLM startup is to launch a cloud based offering, because that's the only potential path in sight for venture scale returns.
Built to work with lmstudio, one of the leading easy to use local model servers. LMStudio is the closest to plug-and-play without sacrificing play that I've seen; a harness that works well with it is nothing to sniff at. Its not earth shattering either.
built to work with an OpenAI API compatible endpoint, just like any other harness...
and if someone can't figure out how to write down an address it's very likely they also can't figure out how to make local models not suck for coding, and would likely switch back to codex/cc after 15 minutes anyways.
I guess it lives or dies by the harness quality then - on open models run locally by plug and players and models that fit onto peoples laptops that is going to be quite the handicap to overcome.
I run lmstudio personally with a range of harnesses (open and closed) and can't say there is that much of a leap to getting everything talking https://lmstudio.ai/docs/integrations
Wouldn't most opensource harnesses work with lmstudio? I assume it has an "openai" style chat API like every other model provider? What's special about it vs langchain deep agents or pi or pydantic-ai?
If you want to use local models, it's more ergonomic than fussing with GGUFs or using LM Studio as a server host and setting up the link to an agent yourself. Although, the model selector is the same as with LM Studio itself which can be overwhelming if you don't know what to look for.
This kind of thing just makes me think Apple will get to a point where they have good enough local models and good enough harnesses for doing things, and most normal people will just use them… Does the LLM become another interface to computing?
I have thought this for a while. Computing 1.0 meant that we needed to learn the computer’s language to interact with the computer fully. Computing 2.0 is that now the computer has learned our language instead.
i agree.
i believe that for most people on the street, for most tasks, a Chat GPT 3.5 era LLM is sufficient enough. sprinkle in tool calling and other things, and that becomes enough. if you can prioritize that level of a model on-device (baking it in etc), then you can bifurcate AI users between those unwilling to pay and those who are willing to pay A LOT for frontier model performance.
or the other way where primary interfaces ppl use computing arent apple devices like laptops and phones.
A friendly reminder that both LM Studio app and now this new LM Studio Bionic app are closed source.
Since most people are unaware of this fact.
Yup, it's the main reason I don't use LM studio more. I only use it to try out new models/quants, then use llama.cpp directly to host them. LM Studio also doesn't do stuff like audio input and often has bugs that pure llama.cpp doesn't so it can be a net negative for certain use cases.
Does anyone know about their stack - is it a native app? It's fairly well designed for what it is in terms of desktop apps.
The desktop app's GUI is electron.js based.
And? Is that a scandal?
Not a scandal ofc, but people use local models mostly for privacy
and using a closed-source, VC-backed app that might change anything in the next update might not be best for privacy
No, but you are a lot more vulnerable to enshittification and you don’t have the advantages of open source applications.
It’s an important criteria to have in mind when you select an application.
I'm interested in your thought process. How did you get from his initial statement opening of "A friendly reminder ..." to thinking that this was a scandal?
It's a common discussion trope to imply malfeasance in response to good news, which is a way to non-constructively shut down a conversation particularly without elaboration. In this particular case I legit didn't understand what the OP was actually implying because they did not elaborate.
some people want to make money, others want to improve social progress.
Happy to clarify which is who and who is which.
You can do both
Sure. I still don't think it's particularly controversial to acknowledge that the two don't necessarily align either, and that neither really incentivizes the other.
Less unanimous and debatable, but many would say they more often do not align than the opposite.
No one involved in LLMs want to improve social progress. That is simply not part of the equasion.
Yes.
Is that a problem for you comrad?
It is, cowboy
I am not sure I get this. It seems on first glance like just another harness ...
Ultimately, the onus at every VC backed local LLM startup is to launch a cloud based offering, because that's the only potential path in sight for venture scale returns.
Built to work with lmstudio, one of the leading easy to use local model servers. LMStudio is the closest to plug-and-play without sacrificing play that I've seen; a harness that works well with it is nothing to sniff at. Its not earth shattering either.
built to work with an OpenAI API compatible endpoint, just like any other harness...
and if someone can't figure out how to write down an address it's very likely they also can't figure out how to make local models not suck for coding, and would likely switch back to codex/cc after 15 minutes anyways.
I guess it lives or dies by the harness quality then - on open models run locally by plug and players and models that fit onto peoples laptops that is going to be quite the handicap to overcome.
I run lmstudio personally with a range of harnesses (open and closed) and can't say there is that much of a leap to getting everything talking https://lmstudio.ai/docs/integrations
Wouldn't most opensource harnesses work with lmstudio? I assume it has an "openai" style chat API like every other model provider? What's special about it vs langchain deep agents or pi or pydantic-ai?
How does it work with lmstudio? Its a separate standalone application.
If you want to use local models, it's more ergonomic than fussing with GGUFs or using LM Studio as a server host and setting up the link to an agent yourself. Although, the model selector is the same as with LM Studio itself which can be overwhelming if you don't know what to look for.