The chart at the top is somewhat confusing. It says, “lower is better” but the y-axis is inverted! So visually higher in the chart is better but lower in terms of # value.
Claude seems to forget what you tell it in very long work sessions (things that take weeks to develop), no matter how many times you tell it which part is extra important. I dont use goal (I guess I should), but presumably it makes it actually remember the most important instruction. I believe this here is about shorter sessions where the issue doesn't crop up as much.
Unfortunately I’ve used Claude and GPT models for a long time in a variety of harnesses and I agree with you and I think it’s the compaction.
For some reason, codex compaction is like black magic. I’ve never felt like I can just one one continuous thread with other models, Claude I carefully curate when I compact
Unlike other model/harness pairs, codex+gpt also passes an opaque encrypted artifact speculated to be an embedding representing the conversation back to the successor generation which is “denser” or at least higher fidelity than summarized text.
Stop using compaction. Stop treating sessions as something you keep alive for weeks. Set up a proper workflow for handing off work and start handing off well before maximum context is hit. It's less efficient, slower and more costly to constantly be sitting at high context and compaction is just not good.
On Claude if you start with that, it won't stop until it achieves or exhausts your prompt. It feels like "here's your mission, go do it". I use it a few times a week.
Yes I agree, but I actually did a lot more runs, with different prompts, different times ect... And each time /goal had a small or insignificant impact
/goal has replaced plan mode for me. This is the pattern I use for 95% of my AI work now:
1. Read X feature of Y and tell me when you fully understand it (if there's any detail missing in the summary, repeat until the context is primed)
2. What time is it?
3. /goal Spend X minutes from $time writing a technical design doc on $feature. There must not be any vague language or ambiguity in the document. Read carry_forward_requirements.md and testing_best_practices.md and explicitly incorporate them into the document you write. The document should be executable for a contextless implementer when done and include specific code and document references and changes needed. Spend the full X minutes working on and reviewing this document - do not quit early and wait
Even just spending 10 minutes forcing GPT to write a design doc results in much more robust plans than plan mode, in my experience, and saves time I would spend iterating on the initial plan mode draft anyway.
The hypothesis generation phase is looking like the most critical part of having an agent reliably hit your targets.
Simply starting in the correct part of the search space is probably the biggest predictor of success. Forcing one big loop to fight its way through all the hypotheticals from zero looks like a dead end for many practical scenarios, regardless of how powerful the model is. I think you could draw some analogies to humans here.
I have found that delegating deep research to a simple tool call is the best way to ground the agent in complex domains. If you make the main agent loop carry the weight of this research, it's going to do a really shitty job because of how the RLHF tries to preserve context and get an answer to the user quickly. As a tool, you may find the agent invokes multiple rounds of research consecutively without realizing it has incurred billions of tokens of consumption. Many of the tokens are wasted when generating independent hypotheses and subsequently investigating them, but the point is that you sampled 10-100x search space before getting serious about mutating the environment. The tradeoff seems worth it in a lot of cases. Correctness >> Time >> Money.
> 3. /goal Spend X minutes from $time writing a technical design doc on $feature.
Hmm, I feel like this is akin to making a recursive function have a exit condition not based on what it actually did/found, but based on how long time it took.
I'm always using /goal with explicit goals that the agent needs to achieve. Time-bounding them wouldn't make sense, I want something specific done regardless of how long time it takes.
So instead I'd put goals on what the design/architecture needs to achieve, and for the model to continuously check the outcome against these, then finish when everything is achieved. Doesn't really matter if it takes 10 minutes or 10 hours, which for me is a bit the point of /goal in the first place, otherwise I'd just use the agent normally.
I do not know the whole picture, but if you are asking for blind one-shot CSS, you might benefit from wiring the model to take screenshots of various end-browsers and discuss them as you iterate.
Offering freelance estimates for CSS design changes before frameworks were around was a problem.
The chart at the top is somewhat confusing. It says, “lower is better” but the y-axis is inverted! So visually higher in the chart is better but lower in terms of # value.
well thank you so much for this
Claude seems to forget what you tell it in very long work sessions (things that take weeks to develop), no matter how many times you tell it which part is extra important. I dont use goal (I guess I should), but presumably it makes it actually remember the most important instruction. I believe this here is about shorter sessions where the issue doesn't crop up as much.
[delayed]
Unfortunately I’ve used Claude and GPT models for a long time in a variety of harnesses and I agree with you and I think it’s the compaction.
For some reason, codex compaction is like black magic. I’ve never felt like I can just one one continuous thread with other models, Claude I carefully curate when I compact
Unlike other model/harness pairs, codex+gpt also passes an opaque encrypted artifact speculated to be an embedding representing the conversation back to the successor generation which is “denser” or at least higher fidelity than summarized text.
Stop using compaction. Stop treating sessions as something you keep alive for weeks. Set up a proper workflow for handing off work and start handing off well before maximum context is hit. It's less efficient, slower and more costly to constantly be sitting at high context and compaction is just not good.
What is /goal?
On Claude if you start with that, it won't stop until it achieves or exhausts your prompt. It feels like "here's your mission, go do it". I use it a few times a week.
The llm runs in a loop until it meets a condition (the goal).
Results seem mostly noise to me. One eval per model, in a large problem space (i.e. a problem which requires many attempts to solve well).
Yes I agree, but I actually did a lot more runs, with different prompts, different times ect... And each time /goal had a small or insignificant impact
/goal has replaced plan mode for me. This is the pattern I use for 95% of my AI work now:
1. Read X feature of Y and tell me when you fully understand it (if there's any detail missing in the summary, repeat until the context is primed)
2. What time is it?
3. /goal Spend X minutes from $time writing a technical design doc on $feature. There must not be any vague language or ambiguity in the document. Read carry_forward_requirements.md and testing_best_practices.md and explicitly incorporate them into the document you write. The document should be executable for a contextless implementer when done and include specific code and document references and changes needed. Spend the full X minutes working on and reviewing this document - do not quit early and wait
Even just spending 10 minutes forcing GPT to write a design doc results in much more robust plans than plan mode, in my experience, and saves time I would spend iterating on the initial plan mode draft anyway.
The hypothesis generation phase is looking like the most critical part of having an agent reliably hit your targets.
Simply starting in the correct part of the search space is probably the biggest predictor of success. Forcing one big loop to fight its way through all the hypotheticals from zero looks like a dead end for many practical scenarios, regardless of how powerful the model is. I think you could draw some analogies to humans here.
I have found that delegating deep research to a simple tool call is the best way to ground the agent in complex domains. If you make the main agent loop carry the weight of this research, it's going to do a really shitty job because of how the RLHF tries to preserve context and get an answer to the user quickly. As a tool, you may find the agent invokes multiple rounds of research consecutively without realizing it has incurred billions of tokens of consumption. Many of the tokens are wasted when generating independent hypotheses and subsequently investigating them, but the point is that you sampled 10-100x search space before getting serious about mutating the environment. The tradeoff seems worth it in a lot of cases. Correctness >> Time >> Money.
> 3. /goal Spend X minutes from $time writing a technical design doc on $feature.
Hmm, I feel like this is akin to making a recursive function have a exit condition not based on what it actually did/found, but based on how long time it took.
I'm always using /goal with explicit goals that the agent needs to achieve. Time-bounding them wouldn't make sense, I want something specific done regardless of how long time it takes.
So instead I'd put goals on what the design/architecture needs to achieve, and for the model to continuously check the outcome against these, then finish when everything is achieved. Doesn't really matter if it takes 10 minutes or 10 hours, which for me is a bit the point of /goal in the first place, otherwise I'd just use the agent normally.
Well, I’ve been having 5.6 sol work on tasks like “find every OTA app on the internet”
I find explicit time bounds are useful for tasks like this, otherwise the LLM will almost certainly return too early.
I love that we have this on one hand and me cleaning up catastrophic CSS made by Sol on the other. Then again, maybe CSS is the ultimate benchmark.
I do not know the whole picture, but if you are asking for blind one-shot CSS, you might benefit from wiring the model to take screenshots of various end-browsers and discuss them as you iterate.
Offering freelance estimates for CSS design changes before frameworks were around was a problem.
CSS is the reason I refuse to do any frontend work except FE infra and I know I’m not alone here, soooo yes I guess?
A deepdive on the /goal effect on a problem literally made for this.