To everyone who is about to pile on regarding the lack of a fingerprint sensor: you know it's not possible, we all know it's not possible, the creator of this project knows it's not possible.
What are you adding to the conversation when you complain about it? So it's a dealbreaker for you, don't buy it.
To @aemerson_: Congratulations on taking a risk. On first look this is great work. The attention to detail on both the keyboard and the website is really impressive.
Not defending anyone using Touch ID as a reason to complain about this -- I think it looks like a great keyboard -- but just yesterday I saw this super cool alternative to the hilarious "buy the world's most expensive mediocre membrane keyboard to tear out a tiny part" idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB3lk-PNA6I
As near as I can understand it, macOS supports a smart card reader (and apparently will defer to its sign-off for authentication duties when it's present and configured, and Touch ID isn't), so if you emulate a smart card reader you can make your own fingerprint sensor and have it say "I'm a smart card" and sign challenges like a smart card does.
The creator is very up front that this isn't equivalently secure for preserving state secrets, as if you carefully tear this device apart you can just short the pins that the sensor part connects when it's happy with the fingerprint. On the other hand, it is hilarious that anyone who isn't a person of interest for the CIA, Mossad, MI6, or FSB would think they're important enough for someone to go to the trouble of using that method to unlock their secrets. Anyone else would just club you over the head or slip you a mickey, and stick your unconscious finger on your fingerprint sensor.
Unfortunately, I would place this in the 'Sometimes but don't count on it' half of the "Things Apple Watch has Proven Itself Reliable For" list.
(The only non-timekeeping items on the 'Always works perfectly' part of the list are Apple Pay and the little button that dings your phone when you've misplaced it.)
A fingerprint sensor isn't possible, appreciated, but what about a U2F activation button? It could even just be a wireless pass-through for USB to allow your yubikey to work for example (I'm certain this can be done on Linux but unsure about other oses)
Love what you did, the dedication for 2 years to launch this is awesome. Apple keyboards are near-horrific IMO so you are filling an important niche for sure. I know it is a silly complaint in the mech KB space but the price compared to something like a Keychron K3 makes this a no-go for my preferences. The K3 is very close to what I'd consider suitable as a daily driver at work.
Thank you for including audio of the typing!!!! Again this is my preference, the Alter II is not "thocky" enough for what I like to hear. Clacky and Clicky keyboards are just far too distracting or painful to listen to for extended periods.
Also interesting to see a speaker built-in. I'd have cut it for cost and space.
Love the design and have also wanted a super low profile mechanical keyboard like this! I have one question though - what is the travel or activation distance of the keys?
The one thing I actually like about the magic keyboard or Microsoft's designer keyboard is that the "click" is immediate and the entirety travel distance of the key is the activation bump. I dislike any amount of the "extra" travel distance (I'm not sure if I'm using the right words/description, but I hope you get what I mean) of regular mechanical switches and is the main thing that turns me off from them.
Oh also, is it possible to get a Windows version or switch the keys around to accommodate Windows as well?
What you are referring to is called the pre-travel distance. There are mechanical key options with very short pre-travel, such as the Cherry MX and Kailh Silver switches. They're mainly used for gaming.
The travel distance on the Altar II switches is 1.8mm, so about 0.8mm more than on a MacBook keyboard. Similar to those keyboards, there is very little pre-travel on Altar II keys.
With regard to Windows keys that is a possibility. We shipped our previous keyboard, Altar I, with both Mac and Windows markings on the keys.
The thing I find most attractive about mechanical keyboards is that they send a keypress when a key is only partially pressed down. When combined with the tactile bump and audible click created by actuating the key, this means that typing on a mechanical keyboard is much less fatiguing than using a rubber dome or laptop keyboard because you're only pushing the key down partially until you feel the bump and hear the click rather than slamming your finger into the bottom of the keyboard. Does your keyboard still have this feature even with the slim profile?
This is so sick. I'm almost convincing myself to get it but I feel like I would really miss my 36% keyboard with multiple layers too much. Still tho...
Love the keyboard, looks solid. Out of curiosity, why did you make the numbers so big? It looks like an intentional design choice and I don’t know if I like it, but I’m wondering if there’s reasoning behind it that could change my mind
Yeah it seems like if they wanted to make it appeal to Apple people they would make it more consistent and subtle. It's all so clean and then the numbers look like they came off a special calculator for people with failing eyesight.
Looks great, but at this point I’m too used to HHKB layout on custom MX/topre boards to go back to full time typical 65%/75% layouts. Standard Delete/Backspace position in particular is almost grating now. Totally understand if that’s too niche of a market to serve, though.
The switches look a lot like the new ultra low profile Cherry switches that Alienware was putting on their laptops a few years ago, is that what they are?
This is absolutely fantastic, but those gigantic numbers are just bizarre and not at all good to look at. They feel completely out of place there, like you enlarged them by mistake. Not good.
Thank you so much! A genuinely silly amount of time went into the website.
If you'll indulge me for a moment, because I never get to talk about this stuff: the corner radii of the cards on the site are actually "squircles" rather than perfect rounded corners. To me this is much more pleasing to the eye. The squircles are achieved by creating a PNG mask which is then 9-sliced and expanded to mask off the edge of the cards. Another mask is used for the stroke and laid on top of the first mask, to give the gradient border effect.
This looks beautiful. While obviously a Mac keyboard, to what extent is it compatible with Linux?
Will there be documentation of its features beyond a standard Bluetooth HID, such that users could potentially develop software that utilizes the speaker and haptic feedback mechanisms?
Why do you need screenshot button for programming? How many times do you press it?
You can just use fn button for that.
People are programming on a 36-key keyboards just fine and they don't miss any keys.
It's easier to press fn + something than reaching out for screenshot button, which is usually far away. That way, you don't have to move your hands.
The cognitive load of having to press two keys takes its toll and breaks flow, even though it doesn't seem like it should make a difference, at least in my experience. I'm back to TKL or larger.
What a beautiful device. Few questions:
Will it be okay for someone who switches between devices and OSes often? Can I have layers that I can swap between like on a VIA board?
What is the click latency?
Is USB just for charging or can I use it without BT?
Very cool looking, but there is an ocean of mechanical keyboards already available with the US keyboard layout. I would explore making ISO international versions. That market is underserved. Because I wanted a mechanical keyboard with a CAN/CSA Z243.200-92 layout with Mac modifiers, I had to design my own layout in SVG for a Max Keyboards custom job. Keep in mind, I did not want to design my own, but I had to!
Je suis gaucher, et j'ai fait le choix idiot quand j'étais jeune de mettre ma souris à gauche. C'est un choix très étrange, mais ça fait en sorte que je n'ai jamais eu à me troubler des touches supplémentaires à droite. Sont juste là, accessible, et pas dans mon chemin. Mon clavier est de pleine taille sans enjeu ergonomique pour moi.
I love it when people obsessively iterate over something seemingly trivial until it's exactly what they want. This looks amazing, congrats on the launch. I love mechanical keys, but I keep coming back to the Magic keyboard because mechanical keyboards are so clunky. I would order this in a heartbeat if it was available with a nordic layout
> ... but I keep coming back to the Magic keyboard because mechanical keyboards are so clunky
For a laptop or for a desktop? For a desktop the keyboard sits its entire life on the... desk?
And a laptop happens to have its own keyboard. The only people I know who use an external keyboard with a laptop do it precisely because they want a particular mechanical switch / keyboard layout.
Are there people taking their Magic keyboard with them in their backpack or car or whatever just to hook it to a laptop? I don't think many do that.
So you find a keyboard on a desk looks clunky? Do you need a "not clunky" keyboard to take pictures you post on Instagram?
I've got a 60% mechanical keyboard on my desk: its footprint is smaller than some Magic keyboard versions. And, well, vertically there's room on my desk.
I’m assuming it’s not possible for it to include a fingerprint sensor?
As much as I’d like a mechanical keyboard for my Mac that’s always the part that gets me. I end up using the one my Magic Keyboard 20+ times per workday.
Unfortunately not possible, at least not securely, and not in a way that users would expect. I really tried.
We could include _a_ fingerprint sensor, and even include a special secure/tamper-proof chip, but it would never be able to work with things like Apple Pay. It would probably be able to do some things like log you in to your Mac by spoofing itself as a card reader or secure key. But because we can’t communicate with Apple’s Secure Enclave it would never be a seamless experience.
Maybe someday Apple could open up Touch ID like they do with Find My. But for now it’s pretty much a non-starter.
Yes, agreed. Beautiful keyboard, but when I heard "magic" I hoped to find a touch ID. That sensor so useful that even though I use a mechanical keyboard, I keep an apple magic keyboard off to the side of my desk just for the touch ID sensor.
What I'd love to have is a standalone touch ID sensor that I could attach anywhere -- mechanical keyboard, side of the monitor, under my desk, etc. I guess this is bottlenecked by Apple's IP on the device, so I've considered just hacking one together by deconstructing and extracting an Apple keyboard...
> In my setup my laptop is close enough that I can reach out and use the fingerprint reader on it.
Some mechanical keyboards ship with an embedded USB hub that supports a couple of USB ports that allow users to pick and choose what devices to plug in.
I respect that you're doing a single variant up front, and I understand the business challenges and risks of going wide on a niche product like this... but as a single datapoint, I'll pay double for an ortholinear with similar features and style.
I am a big fan of the original Altar. I like that you’ve been trying new things with that design like the novel keycap profile.
The switches look like cherry ultra low profile switches. I’ve not tried these out, how do they feel compared to the linear kailh choc v1’s you used before.
They feel quite different to the Chocs, unsurprisingly. Although the required actuation force is close to the Choc Reds (40gf on our switch vs 50gf on the Choc Reds), because it's spread over such a small vertical travel it feels much "snappier". There is also very little pre-travel. It's kind of like a much sharper/tactile feeling chiclet switch with more vertical travel, if that makes sense.
Hey, hooray! I still have my switch-modded Altar I but it ended up being too tall for me, so this is a surprisingly great discovery for my morning. Looking forward to trying a new keyboard :D
Great concept! I need eu layout with the extra button next to the left shift. Why I would buy is essentially. Thin, premium typing experience, accessibility features. Don't need the fancy dials, stick out buttons, or a speaker. Dim it down, and it would be perfect
For those in the comment section looking for a split alternative to this, there is this Kickstarter(be warned of the usual problems with Kickstarters):
Looks great, but sadly no fingerprint sensor is a deal breaker for me. I know it's not actually possible, so not your fault, but it's not for me. I rely on that thing way too much.
When I saw the announcement I was kinda hoping that they were taking a magic keyboard, tearing it apart and adding the extra hardware to make having this possible.
This looks awesome! The thing I'd want to know is how much of the configuration lives on firmware vs. in the macOS app? If the app is a thin config editor and the mappings remain on-device, that's very different than if the dial and haptics stop working when a future macOS release breaks the app. Also, is there any commitment on firmware being flashable/open if the company someday isn't around?
Everything lives on the keyboard itself. The app just configures files on the device, basically. The keyboard also works without the app of course. This approach has the added benefit of making your configuration portable. For example if you remap your dial, and move to a different computer, your remapped dial will persist.
There are a couple of small quality-of-life features that do require the app: for example if you want haptic feedback when you receive a notification. This is because the keyboard has no idea what is happening on your OS, and requires some middleware. But all the core functionality requires no app at all.
Both Altar I and Altar II firmware are based on the open-source ZMK (https://zmk.dev). We try to contribute back to ZMK whenever we can because we have benefitted so much from it. Two members of our team are also long-standing ZMK contributors.
Opened the site, thought it was teenage engineering... Which is a compliment to me, because I always love their designs! Unfortunately as a HHKB user I'm not a fan of low profile keyboards otherwise I would've bought this.
Maybe a bit (a lot) overboard with the marketing snazz on this page.
it's a keyboard
It's not a miracle.
If you're going to have all this 3D imagery, put a glTF model viewer on the page, and let me look at it.
though to be told, I definitely want one. low profile keyboards are indeed my jam. I don't know why the hell keyboards need to have batteries though. No one needs a wireless keyboard. Wires are not that much of a pain in the ass. Coiled, self-retracting keyboard cables are a thing. Keyboards do not need to be wireless. Wires are fine, I promise! Wireless mouse? Sure. Wires make the mouse move when you don't want it to move. Wireless credential entry device? Those should remain wired, I think.
I love this. I type with one hand, & I find mechanical keyboards with lots of travel very difficult because of the speed I type at and the depth that you need to make the key activate. It's a shame about the lack of fingerprint sensor - I wonder if there's any projects out there where you could rescue one from a donor keyboard & just put that in a small profile case nearby?
Out of curiosity, what exactly is a "fully mechanical scissor switch"? And is this the first such switch on the market? If I search for other such products I can only find "metal scissor switch over rubber dome" style.
Looks amazing. Would've been crazy good to include a few OLED keys a la Optimus Maximus [0], which has forever been a dream, even with all the negative reviews.
Absolutely love the design, features, website, attention to detail, and just...taste. It's been quite a while since I mashed that reserve button so quickly haha. Hope it lives up to the design and looks!
Looks beautiful, congrats on the launch! I've been looking for a replacement for my Apple Magic keyboard. I would love to buy one, but ISO layout is a must for me, also would like blank or swappable keycaps.
I was really excited about Altar I, but no shipping to Brazil, so I gave up on it. Nice to see the idea continues (consider worldwide shipping would be my only feedback on the idea, I guess).
I now own a Logitech MX Keys S and I'm quite happy with it.
Part of the reason for the overwhelming praise is because this is a “Show HN” thread[0]. People liked the amount of effort put in. Keyboards are highly personal anyways, so I wouldn’t be surprised that an average person would disagree with a few design decisions here.
Great work! Have you, or do you intend to, write about the process of bringing this to fruition? Would love to learn more about how a polished bit of hardware like this is designed.
If we did a numpad I would probably do it as a separate device. Personally I don't like how the numpad sits between the edge of my keyboard and mouse. I'd prefer it to the left of my keyboard or to the right side of my mouse.
It's kind of like a M-series Mac keyboard but with substantially more travel on the key (we have about 0.5mm more travel), and more of a more definitive sense of when the key is actuated. It's a much more tactile experience than the MacBook keyboards, but that is still the closest comparison.
It does! We do some firmware trickery to make the globe key behave just like the Magic Keyboard. Can you tell me what exactly you use it for? I just want to make sure we have your use case covered.
Wow, beautiful. Both the site and the keyboard. I put a deposit down.
Edit: in reply to the person above because I keep getting a "You're posting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks." error because I've made 2 posts in this thread apparently...
Anyway, it would be neat if in the future the M-Dial slot could be used for a fingerprint reader or something else. Swappable items in that slot.
Honestly the price seems quite low for what you get (at $249) and what looks like might be a small batch production. I hope you can make a profit after everything is said and done at that price!
This price is only for people who reserve before we launch on Kickstarter. I agree it is good value but also I should point out the retail price will be $349 for anyone buying after we fulfil all the pre-orders.
Rest assured we are building a sustainable business that will be around for the long haul.
Lovely engineering; if you bring it to market(?) I suggest offering if not full customization a range of aesthetics.
Black/red is a hard no for me. Something fitting with the existing aesthetic (let's call it "Scandanavian milled", subtle frosting, white text) or warmer ("natural", off-white, orange LEDs) etc etc.
One other question: waterproof? I assume that's not possible. Would be a decision maker for me personally probably.
Looks nice. However, 2 years and you still squished the arrow keys into the rest of the keyboard. Unacceptable "design" mate. You need to talk with your customers.
Unfortunately, no numpad is definitely a dealbreaker. Looks like a really cool product, but the numpad is a _must_ for any keyboard you want to do real work on, at least in my opinion.
But yeah, I guess that's fair, not everybody's workload is going to involve inputting incident numbers, and order numbers, and asset numbers, etc etc etc all the time... even IP addresses, I just find it so much more comfortable with the numpad, whereas I find I have a tough time touch-typing on the number row.
To everyone who is about to pile on regarding the lack of a fingerprint sensor: you know it's not possible, we all know it's not possible, the creator of this project knows it's not possible.
What are you adding to the conversation when you complain about it? So it's a dealbreaker for you, don't buy it.
To @aemerson_: Congratulations on taking a risk. On first look this is great work. The attention to detail on both the keyboard and the website is really impressive.
Not defending anyone using Touch ID as a reason to complain about this -- I think it looks like a great keyboard -- but just yesterday I saw this super cool alternative to the hilarious "buy the world's most expensive mediocre membrane keyboard to tear out a tiny part" idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB3lk-PNA6I
As near as I can understand it, macOS supports a smart card reader (and apparently will defer to its sign-off for authentication duties when it's present and configured, and Touch ID isn't), so if you emulate a smart card reader you can make your own fingerprint sensor and have it say "I'm a smart card" and sign challenges like a smart card does.
The creator is very up front that this isn't equivalently secure for preserving state secrets, as if you carefully tear this device apart you can just short the pins that the sensor part connects when it's happy with the fingerprint. On the other hand, it is hilarious that anyone who isn't a person of interest for the CIA, Mossad, MI6, or FSB would think they're important enough for someone to go to the trouble of using that method to unlock their secrets. Anyone else would just club you over the head or slip you a mickey, and stick your unconscious finger on your fingerprint sensor.
Get an Apple Watch. It massively cuts the amount of required unlocks.
Unfortunately, I would place this in the 'Sometimes but don't count on it' half of the "Things Apple Watch has Proven Itself Reliable For" list.
(The only non-timekeeping items on the 'Always works perfectly' part of the list are Apple Pay and the little button that dings your phone when you've misplaced it.)
A fingerprint sensor isn't possible, appreciated, but what about a U2F activation button? It could even just be a wireless pass-through for USB to allow your yubikey to work for example (I'm certain this can be done on Linux but unsure about other oses)
https://github.com/zimengxiong/tinytouch spoofs as a card reader but won't work with Apple Pay and the like.
> It could even just be a wireless pass-through for USB to allow your yubikey to work for example
Everyone would be better served with a generic USB hub in the keyboard, not shipping a security key with the keyboard.
Fingerprint sensor is technically possible: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=120964.0
CC @gtsteve
fingerprint sensor is easily done. Touch ID-compatible fingerprint sensor from someone other than Apple is not possible as I understand it.
Love what you did, the dedication for 2 years to launch this is awesome. Apple keyboards are near-horrific IMO so you are filling an important niche for sure. I know it is a silly complaint in the mech KB space but the price compared to something like a Keychron K3 makes this a no-go for my preferences. The K3 is very close to what I'd consider suitable as a daily driver at work. Thank you for including audio of the typing!!!! Again this is my preference, the Alter II is not "thocky" enough for what I like to hear. Clacky and Clicky keyboards are just far too distracting or painful to listen to for extended periods. Also interesting to see a speaker built-in. I'd have cut it for cost and space.
It would be glorious if there was a split version!
Great looking keyboard but why are the numbers on the number keys so large? They stick out like a sore thumb.
LOVE the industrial design. HATE the font, especially on the number keys. But, great job overall!
[delayed]
Love the design and have also wanted a super low profile mechanical keyboard like this! I have one question though - what is the travel or activation distance of the keys?
The one thing I actually like about the magic keyboard or Microsoft's designer keyboard is that the "click" is immediate and the entirety travel distance of the key is the activation bump. I dislike any amount of the "extra" travel distance (I'm not sure if I'm using the right words/description, but I hope you get what I mean) of regular mechanical switches and is the main thing that turns me off from them.
Oh also, is it possible to get a Windows version or switch the keys around to accommodate Windows as well?
What you are referring to is called the pre-travel distance. There are mechanical key options with very short pre-travel, such as the Cherry MX and Kailh Silver switches. They're mainly used for gaming.
https://keychron.ca/blogs/news/kailh-mechanical-switch-guide
The travel distance on the Altar II switches is 1.8mm, so about 0.8mm more than on a MacBook keyboard. Similar to those keyboards, there is very little pre-travel on Altar II keys.
With regard to Windows keys that is a possibility. We shipped our previous keyboard, Altar I, with both Mac and Windows markings on the keys.
It looks like the travel distance on the Microsoft Designer Keyboard is 1.35mm, so not far off.
How long are preorders/is the preorder discount available? I may seriously consider this.
Reservations are open until the Kickstarter launches on November 10th 2026.
I can't go back to a staggered typewriter layout, ergonomic columnar is where it's at.
I'm curious what the purpose of haptic feedback on an already mechanical keyboard is?
Cool that you've been able to turn this into a livable business though.
It's feedback for the magnetically-coupled dial, and optionally an accessory to notifications.
The thing I find most attractive about mechanical keyboards is that they send a keypress when a key is only partially pressed down. When combined with the tactile bump and audible click created by actuating the key, this means that typing on a mechanical keyboard is much less fatiguing than using a rubber dome or laptop keyboard because you're only pushing the key down partially until you feel the bump and hear the click rather than slamming your finger into the bottom of the keyboard. Does your keyboard still have this feature even with the slim profile?
This is so sick. I'm almost convincing myself to get it but I feel like I would really miss my 36% keyboard with multiple layers too much. Still tho...
Love the keyboard, looks solid. Out of curiosity, why did you make the numbers so big? It looks like an intentional design choice and I don’t know if I like it, but I’m wondering if there’s reasoning behind it that could change my mind
Yeah it seems like if they wanted to make it appeal to Apple people they would make it more consistent and subtle. It's all so clean and then the numbers look like they came off a special calculator for people with failing eyesight.
Looks great, but at this point I’m too used to HHKB layout on custom MX/topre boards to go back to full time typical 65%/75% layouts. Standard Delete/Backspace position in particular is almost grating now. Totally understand if that’s too niche of a market to serve, though.
The switches look a lot like the new ultra low profile Cherry switches that Alienware was putting on their laptops a few years ago, is that what they are?
This is absolutely fantastic, but those gigantic numbers are just bizarre and not at all good to look at. They feel completely out of place there, like you enlarged them by mistake. Not good.
The promo website is something to behold and by itself is sufficient reason to chuck a buck at the possibility of Altar II coming into existence.
Thank you, good luck, and looking forward!
Thank you so much! A genuinely silly amount of time went into the website.
If you'll indulge me for a moment, because I never get to talk about this stuff: the corner radii of the cards on the site are actually "squircles" rather than perfect rounded corners. To me this is much more pleasing to the eye. The squircles are achieved by creating a PNG mask which is then 9-sliced and expanded to mask off the edge of the cards. Another mask is used for the stroke and laid on top of the first mask, to give the gradient border effect.
It looks nice on mobile but I initially viewed it on desktop and found it unpleasant to use.
This looks beautiful. While obviously a Mac keyboard, to what extent is it compatible with Linux?
Will there be documentation of its features beyond a standard Bluetooth HID, such that users could potentially develop software that utilizes the speaker and haptic feedback mechanisms?
Well, for programming it's not convenient -- no Insert/Pageup/Screenshot buttons.
Why do you need screenshot button for programming? How many times do you press it? You can just use fn button for that.
People are programming on a 36-key keyboards just fine and they don't miss any keys. It's easier to press fn + something than reaching out for screenshot button, which is usually far away. That way, you don't have to move your hands.
The cognitive load of having to press two keys takes its toll and breaks flow, even though it doesn't seem like it should make a difference, at least in my experience. I'm back to TKL or larger.
Does a Mac even recognize the screenshot button?
I take lots of screenshots and videos and add them to PRs, which clearly communicate what has changed.
15 years of mouse-free professional programming and never in my life have I touched these.
30 years of professional programming and I touch "Home", "End", "PgUp", "PgDn", "Ins", and "Del" every single day.
You can do this using fn button, without moving your hand every time you need to press them.
It's very convenient, when your hand don't move at all and can reach every button.
What a beautiful device. Few questions: Will it be okay for someone who switches between devices and OSes often? Can I have layers that I can swap between like on a VIA board?
What is the click latency?
Is USB just for charging or can I use it without BT?
Very cool looking, but there is an ocean of mechanical keyboards already available with the US keyboard layout. I would explore making ISO international versions. That market is underserved. Because I wanted a mechanical keyboard with a CAN/CSA Z243.200-92 layout with Mac modifiers, I had to design my own layout in SVG for a Max Keyboards custom job. Keep in mind, I did not want to design my own, but I had to!
Tu connais Qwerty Lafayette?
https://qwerty-lafayette.org/
Je suis gaucher, et j'ai fait le choix idiot quand j'étais jeune de mettre ma souris à gauche. C'est un choix très étrange, mais ça fait en sorte que je n'ai jamais eu à me troubler des touches supplémentaires à droite. Sont juste là, accessible, et pas dans mon chemin. Mon clavier est de pleine taille sans enjeu ergonomique pour moi.
I love it when people obsessively iterate over something seemingly trivial until it's exactly what they want. This looks amazing, congrats on the launch. I love mechanical keys, but I keep coming back to the Magic keyboard because mechanical keyboards are so clunky. I would order this in a heartbeat if it was available with a nordic layout
> ... but I keep coming back to the Magic keyboard because mechanical keyboards are so clunky
For a laptop or for a desktop? For a desktop the keyboard sits its entire life on the... desk?
And a laptop happens to have its own keyboard. The only people I know who use an external keyboard with a laptop do it precisely because they want a particular mechanical switch / keyboard layout.
Are there people taking their Magic keyboard with them in their backpack or car or whatever just to hook it to a laptop? I don't think many do that.
So you find a keyboard on a desk looks clunky? Do you need a "not clunky" keyboard to take pictures you post on Instagram?
I've got a 60% mechanical keyboard on my desk: its footprint is smaller than some Magic keyboard versions. And, well, vertically there's room on my desk.
I’m assuming it’s not possible for it to include a fingerprint sensor?
As much as I’d like a mechanical keyboard for my Mac that’s always the part that gets me. I end up using the one my Magic Keyboard 20+ times per workday.
Otherwise it looks beautiful.
Unfortunately not possible, at least not securely, and not in a way that users would expect. I really tried.
We could include _a_ fingerprint sensor, and even include a special secure/tamper-proof chip, but it would never be able to work with things like Apple Pay. It would probably be able to do some things like log you in to your Mac by spoofing itself as a card reader or secure key. But because we can’t communicate with Apple’s Secure Enclave it would never be a seamless experience.
Maybe someday Apple could open up Touch ID like they do with Find My. But for now it’s pretty much a non-starter.
Yes, agreed. Beautiful keyboard, but when I heard "magic" I hoped to find a touch ID. That sensor so useful that even though I use a mechanical keyboard, I keep an apple magic keyboard off to the side of my desk just for the touch ID sensor.
What I'd love to have is a standalone touch ID sensor that I could attach anywhere -- mechanical keyboard, side of the monitor, under my desk, etc. I guess this is bottlenecked by Apple's IP on the device, so I've considered just hacking one together by deconstructing and extracting an Apple keyboard...
In my setup my laptop is close enough that I can reach out and use the fingerprint reader on it. It is stupid but I got used to it pretty quickly.
> In my setup my laptop is close enough that I can reach out and use the fingerprint reader on it.
Some mechanical keyboards ship with an embedded USB hub that supports a couple of USB ports that allow users to pick and choose what devices to plug in.
I wonder why this feature isn't widespread.
20 times a day? You know you can disable touch id for simple password autofill
Well there is this https://github.com/zimengxiong/tinytouch
And this as well, if you have a Magic Keyboard around: https://www.printables.com/model/320000-standalone-touch-id-...
Order placed.
I respect that you're doing a single variant up front, and I understand the business challenges and risks of going wide on a niche product like this... but as a single datapoint, I'll pay double for an ortholinear with similar features and style.
I am a big fan of the original Altar. I like that you’ve been trying new things with that design like the novel keycap profile.
The switches look like cherry ultra low profile switches. I’ve not tried these out, how do they feel compared to the linear kailh choc v1’s you used before.
Glad you like Altar I!
They feel quite different to the Chocs, unsurprisingly. Although the required actuation force is close to the Choc Reds (40gf on our switch vs 50gf on the Choc Reds), because it's spread over such a small vertical travel it feels much "snappier". There is also very little pre-travel. It's kind of like a much sharper/tactile feeling chiclet switch with more vertical travel, if that makes sense.
Congrats on the industrial design, that is one of the nicest looking keyboards I've seen in a hot minute.
I love this! Though I don't own a Mac anymore. I expect this to work as a standard keyboard in Linux? Which features are mac-only?
Really cool! I’d love to try those switches. Can’t imagine using a non-split keyboard though. Great work regardless. Stunning.
Hey, hooray! I still have my switch-modded Altar I but it ended up being too tall for me, so this is a surprisingly great discovery for my morning. Looking forward to trying a new keyboard :D
Great concept! I need eu layout with the extra button next to the left shift. Why I would buy is essentially. Thin, premium typing experience, accessibility features. Don't need the fancy dials, stick out buttons, or a speaker. Dim it down, and it would be perfect
Rarely have I wanted to spend money on a peripheral as readily as on this keyboard. It looks like it's perfection.
For those in the comment section looking for a split alternative to this, there is this Kickstarter(be warned of the usual problems with Kickstarters):
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-s...
or this that is in stock but doesn't exactly follow Apple's layout
https://www.ozokeyboards.com/products/jiffy75-wireless-split...
It is time to introduce split space bars in every new keyboard designs.
The single wide space bar is an even worse offender than row staggered or qwerty.
Looks great, but sadly no fingerprint sensor is a deal breaker for me. I know it's not actually possible, so not your fault, but it's not for me. I rely on that thing way too much.
When I saw the announcement I was kinda hoping that they were taking a magic keyboard, tearing it apart and adding the extra hardware to make having this possible.
But seems like that is not the case.
If on Mac, consider TinyTouch as a potential biometric hardware supplement when a keyboard does not support: https://github.com/zimengxiong/tinytouch
(no affiliation, saw a thread on it here)
This looks awesome! The thing I'd want to know is how much of the configuration lives on firmware vs. in the macOS app? If the app is a thin config editor and the mappings remain on-device, that's very different than if the dial and haptics stop working when a future macOS release breaks the app. Also, is there any commitment on firmware being flashable/open if the company someday isn't around?
Everything lives on the keyboard itself. The app just configures files on the device, basically. The keyboard also works without the app of course. This approach has the added benefit of making your configuration portable. For example if you remap your dial, and move to a different computer, your remapped dial will persist.
There are a couple of small quality-of-life features that do require the app: for example if you want haptic feedback when you receive a notification. This is because the keyboard has no idea what is happening on your OS, and requires some middleware. But all the core functionality requires no app at all.
To answer your second question, the firmware for Altar II will be open-sourced, as the firmware for our Altar I keyboard is. You can see the Altar I firmware source code here: https://github.com/electronicmaterialsoffice/firmware-altar-...
Both Altar I and Altar II firmware are based on the open-source ZMK (https://zmk.dev). We try to contribute back to ZMK whenever we can because we have benefitted so much from it. Two members of our team are also long-standing ZMK contributors.
Will the app also be free/open-source?
Opened the site, thought it was teenage engineering... Which is a compliment to me, because I always love their designs! Unfortunately as a HHKB user I'm not a fan of low profile keyboards otherwise I would've bought this.
I appreciate the TE comparison! I am very inspired by them. Maybe in the future we can make a thicker keyboard for you.
Maybe a bit (a lot) overboard with the marketing snazz on this page.
it's a keyboard
It's not a miracle.
If you're going to have all this 3D imagery, put a glTF model viewer on the page, and let me look at it.
though to be told, I definitely want one. low profile keyboards are indeed my jam. I don't know why the hell keyboards need to have batteries though. No one needs a wireless keyboard. Wires are not that much of a pain in the ass. Coiled, self-retracting keyboard cables are a thing. Keyboards do not need to be wireless. Wires are fine, I promise! Wireless mouse? Sure. Wires make the mouse move when you don't want it to move. Wireless credential entry device? Those should remain wired, I think.
Reserved! I would have paid the 249 today btw :) she looks beautiful.
This looks wonderful.
I wish it had the option to be ordered with blank keys.
I love this. I type with one hand, & I find mechanical keyboards with lots of travel very difficult because of the speed I type at and the depth that you need to make the key activate. It's a shame about the lack of fingerprint sensor - I wonder if there's any projects out there where you could rescue one from a donor keyboard & just put that in a small profile case nearby?
Out of curiosity, what exactly is a "fully mechanical scissor switch"? And is this the first such switch on the market? If I search for other such products I can only find "metal scissor switch over rubber dome" style.
An indie dev beating Apple at its own game is some feat. This inspires me. Would purchase in a heartbeat.
Looks amazing. Would've been crazy good to include a few OLED keys a la Optimus Maximus [0], which has forever been a dream, even with all the negative reviews.
[0] https://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/
Absolutely love the design, features, website, attention to detail, and just...taste. It's been quite a while since I mashed that reserve button so quickly haha. Hope it lives up to the design and looks!
With this was more in line with corne style split keyboards and really made for programmers like enthium.
Looks beautiful, congrats on the launch! I've been looking for a replacement for my Apple Magic keyboard. I would love to buy one, but ISO layout is a must for me, also would like blank or swappable keycaps.
Wow I not expecting to see that! I love it!!! Good work!
Beautiful, would it work on Linux? Btw, the website is really heavy for my connection.
I was really excited about Altar I, but no shipping to Brazil, so I gave up on it. Nice to see the idea continues (consider worldwide shipping would be my only feedback on the idea, I guess).
I now own a Logitech MX Keys S and I'm quite happy with it.
I don't understand the overwhelming praise. This product is just bizarre. Who is this for?
What's with the giant numbers and tiny symbols? I know where the numbers are from muscle memory. I don't have the symbols memorized.
Haptic feedback when you use the command key? Why?
No number pad or page up/page dn, which would be something useful.
This is like The Homer of keyboards. Does it play La Cucaracha out of the speaker if you push the knob four times?
You clearly have the technical capabilities but the product requirements are bonkers.
Part of the reason for the overwhelming praise is because this is a “Show HN” thread[0]. People liked the amount of effort put in. Keyboards are highly personal anyways, so I wouldn’t be surprised that an average person would disagree with a few design decisions here.
[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html
> who is this for?
Me and my preorder
It's made for keyboard enthusiasts. Give it a shot. Maybe you'll be one of them.
Looks beautiful and great presentation of your efforts. Hope it lives up to its expectations. All the best
Beautiful! Looking forward to the Kickstarter. But also, why is it completely flat?
What is the weight?
These switches remind me of the butterfly switches on previous generations of Macbooks....not a great memory
The autoplaying videos make your website unusable on mobile.
Love it! Can you offer full color lighting instead of just red?
I’d like to second this. Being able to change the color using the dial would be…satisfying.
Great work! Have you, or do you intend to, write about the process of bringing this to fruition? Would love to learn more about how a polished bit of hardware like this is designed.
I like the website more than the keyboard itself
OK, I want it, but for Linux.
Any plans for a model with numeric keypad too?
Not at the moment.
If we did a numpad I would probably do it as a separate device. Personally I don't like how the numpad sits between the edge of my keyboard and mouse. I'd prefer it to the left of my keyboard or to the right side of my mouse.
Sent to my rich friend. He wants 3 in white!
What does it feel like to type on?
It's kind of like a M-series Mac keyboard but with substantially more travel on the key (we have about 0.5mm more travel), and more of a more definitive sense of when the key is actuated. It's a much more tactile experience than the MacBook keyboards, but that is still the closest comparison.
Nice!
The devil is in the details.
Do you have a french version? ...
Just turn it upside down /s
It. It is real thing? cool.
My dream keyboard, if only it could split down the middle for ergonomics :(
yea split + ortholinear would be peak
Ergo users are never going to be happy.
I'd complain about the lack of thumb keys, and then the flatness, and suddenly we're talking about a completely different keyboard.
Add a finger print sensor at some point. Lovely design.
there is nothing more satisfying than the thickness of the device being the same thickness of the charge cable terminal.
This looks dope, looking forward to ordering in the future.
dang, this seems really amazing
This looks great. Never liked the idea of having to add wrist rests to all these tall bulky mechanical keyboards.
Does it support the globe key without having to use karabiner?
It does! We do some firmware trickery to make the globe key behave just like the Magic Keyboard. Can you tell me what exactly you use it for? I just want to make sure we have your use case covered.
Mostly for these: https://imgur.com/a/c5ty1Ml
Wow, beautiful. Both the site and the keyboard. I put a deposit down.
Edit: in reply to the person above because I keep getting a "You're posting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks." error because I've made 2 posts in this thread apparently...
Anyway, it would be neat if in the future the M-Dial slot could be used for a fingerprint reader or something else. Swappable items in that slot.
Thank you so much! Really appreciate it. Glad you like the website too, I put a lot of effort into it.
If you have any questions I'd be very happy to answer them.
Honestly the price seems quite low for what you get (at $249) and what looks like might be a small batch production. I hope you can make a profit after everything is said and done at that price!
This price is only for people who reserve before we launch on Kickstarter. I agree it is good value but also I should point out the retail price will be $349 for anyone buying after we fulfil all the pre-orders.
Rest assured we are building a sustainable business that will be around for the long haul.
Lovely engineering; if you bring it to market(?) I suggest offering if not full customization a range of aesthetics.
Black/red is a hard no for me. Something fitting with the existing aesthetic (let's call it "Scandanavian milled", subtle frosting, white text) or warmer ("natural", off-white, orange LEDs) etc etc.
One other question: waterproof? I assume that's not possible. Would be a decision maker for me personally probably.
Looks nice. However, 2 years and you still squished the arrow keys into the rest of the keyboard. Unacceptable "design" mate. You need to talk with your customers.
Unfortunately, no numpad is definitely a dealbreaker. Looks like a really cool product, but the numpad is a _must_ for any keyboard you want to do real work on, at least in my opinion.
Maybe if excel is your main software used I could see that, can’t remember the last time I typed enough numbers to make it worth it though.
I don't like playing Nethack without it :(
But yeah, I guess that's fair, not everybody's workload is going to involve inputting incident numbers, and order numbers, and asset numbers, etc etc etc all the time... even IP addresses, I just find it so much more comfortable with the numpad, whereas I find I have a tough time touch-typing on the number row.