The thing we should be incentivizing people to use here are batteries, in the exact same configuration. We do not in many places, need more solar power generation, but we need devices that slurp down power at 2pm and dump it out in the three hours after sundown. Utilities should be paying anyone who dumps power to the grid at peak post-sundown demand hours, so that it is a no-brainer to install such a thing.
Not exclusively. A few power companies (like SRP) innovated here with TOU plans that have variable costs throughout the day. You can save huge amounts of monthly spend by moving energy intensive work to off-peak hours and by “priming” things ahead of peak hours, like over-cooling your house ahead of the peak window.
The most costly part of an infrastructure build out is supporting peak-of-peak - that capacity exists year round to service the demand generated by peak mid-day usage during a heatwave in July.
If you can “lop off” that peak - it dramatically reduces the infra build out cost.
Peak-of-peak tends to correspond with sunny days: mid-day in summer. I could see battery-less solar being a useful tool there.
Don't expect that to last. £1 per kWh = £1000 per MWh. Even when things went crazy as sanctions kicked in and Russia were attempting Blitzkrieg in Ukraine the wholesale prices never hit £1000 per MWh.
They say £1/kWh is a Beta price, that makes sense as a way to burn investor money to get people interested. Their real price is TBD. Would you take 25p per kWh with a £5 per month guarantee ? That could be at least in the ballpark of working.
Be careful with these kind of long term sell back agreements.
In the USA lots of early adopters of solar did so under net metering agreements where excess electricity is sold back at full price. After a number of years it was costing the utility companies too much money. So they updated the terms such that residents with solar buy electricity at retail prices (~$0.25) but sell it back at wholesale (~$0.04).
At least in the US, no, for one simple reason: grids in the US rarely to never have an excess amount of renewable generation capacity.
In my area natural gas is a consistent 40-60% of generated power, with solar rarely reaching more than about 30-35% at high noon in the summer.
Right now (as in at this very minute, high noon) in CA ~70% of the power being generated is renewable. That's 30% that could be solar, and isn't.
When there's excess renewable generation capacity (or about to be), sure, let's talk about installations for storing it.
In the meantime utilities are deploying battery systems for virtual grid inertia, to avoid having to use "peaker" plants, reliability when transmission lines go down, and for transmission line maintenance.
Yeah I'm going to wait for lidl to do them, that's the plan anyway. Anything you can buy now is ~£600 (ecoflow is the brand I've seen). Hoping some others take the plunge first to provide some guidance.
The biggest obstacle to solar in the US: utility companies.
Ask anyone who has had a system installed. Your system can be totally compliant with national and state electrical code, installed by a competent installer using staff who are licensed electricians, get a stamp of approval from your own's inspectors - and the utility will refuse to connect it and insist you meet an additional set of their own conditions.
And there's nothing you can do about it. No appeals, no review process, nothing.
It's not even consistent, with utilities seeming to just obstruct for the sake of obstructing. Over and over I've of systems going in, the utility comes out (eventually) to inspect, refuses to connect. They're called back out, nothing has changed, and the system gets approved.
This is legislatures getting tired of all that power company bullshit, and bypassing them. As balcony solar rules hit state legislatures, expect some really absurd scare campaigns by power companies, and lots of lobbying.
Power companies see every solar panel they don't own as a threat to the profits they make on their fossil fuel power plants.
There was a carport fire in my building back in the 90's. The firefighters got all set up to turn their hoses on it but did not actually start using water to fight the fire until the utility guy from the city arrived to de-energize the supply from a nearby vault.
How does that safety protocol work when the electrical connections and supplies are distributed around the house and may be inaccessible due to fire?
In Germany, where this kind of plug-in solar panels is very common (1.5 GW installed power) it is mandatory that the inverter powers itself down as soon as the grid is offline/disconnected. It has to be so fast that you can savely touch the plug after unplugging it.
I guess it's standard everywhere.
Actually the rule is that your solar system must stop feeding power to the utility if the utility is down. You are allowed to run in isolated mode if your system supports that. Yes, even in Germany.
Every way I can think it through, isolated mode means your house is disconnected from the utility when you lose power, which requires more equipment than can be contained in a plug in solar panel.
This is exactly how our rooftop solar works. The inverter only supplies ac power if it can sync to the grid frequency meaning that the system disconnects without a live grid connection. Even if I had a battery, this would still be a requirement under local regulations.
companies that sell plug-in systems argue that safety risks are minimal or nonexistent. Mr. Scherer of Craftstrom said his company’s systems would not shock electrical workers because they shut off automatically within one second of a power disruption or grid outage.
Mr. Boyce of UL Solutions said his company would certify panels only if they did not pose a risk to consumers or utility workers.
Maybe the fact that these panels are legal around the world and soon will be legal in a number of US states should be a sign to you that this is not a relevant concern.
The device looks for an existing signal from the grid, and if it doesn't find it, it stops feeding power. It even waits for 3-5 minutes before trying again plus some random jitter to avoid thundering herd. It's been a standard in Europe for a while and now finally in the US. This of course depends on the utility and state as not all of them have adopted it but it's quickly becoming the standard everywhere.
IEEE 1547 (interconnection behavior), UL 1741 (inverter product safety), UL 3700 (plug-in solar). (also there are newer revisions you need of some standards like UL 1741)
I once chatted with some line workers working nearby, and I asked them what they did about residential solar. They said they didn’t particularly care about anti-islanding: if they needed to, they would deliberately short all the customer wires to ground, and if anything hadn’t turned off, then breakers would trip.
In the United States, Underwriters Laboratories developed the UL 3700 standard specifically for plug-in solar devices, establishing safety specifications for microinverters and connection systems used in these applications.[2] UL-certified plug-in inverters are designed to automatically shut down during grid outages, preventing backfeed that could endanger electrical workers.[7]
So that is the standard failure mode, but do customers understand how it works?
If I had a balcony solar panel, I'd definitely expect it to be providing backup power when we need it the most. I'd expect it to charge a storage battery, not backfeed into the grid.
Surface area means a lot for solar panels. An EV with a solar panel on top is laughable. I own a solar backpack that couldn't charge its power bank within 3 weeks of daily full sun. A "balcony solar panel" may not keep your smartphone charged.
Consumers in Germany generally understand that this is a cost-savings device, not a backup supply of electricity. You tell your neighbors and friends to get it because of the energy bill savings.
They are not as weak as the toy panels you are describing, but they are regulated to 800W max anyways.
This is absolutely insane. This is the most inefficient way imaginable to deploy solar power.
We could deploy 100x the capacity $/Wh with utility-scale farms. Unfortunately we are just completely failing on basic coordination problems like this in the west, every man for himself.
It is inefficient in the grand scheme of things yes. But it is very efficient on the level of the individual home owner, especially if they do not own the building so cannot install solar. It is a good way to cheaply reduce the cost of electricity.
Yes, installing the solar power globally, and getting a globally connected grid would be more efficient in terms of solar panels/kW(h). But alas, that also requires a lot more infrastructure.
In the mean time this can reduce the energy bill for many people. Especially, if tied to a battery. It is not intended to provide independence, for that you need a lot more capacity.
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/07/31/business/energy-environme...
The thing we should be incentivizing people to use here are batteries, in the exact same configuration. We do not in many places, need more solar power generation, but we need devices that slurp down power at 2pm and dump it out in the three hours after sundown. Utilities should be paying anyone who dumps power to the grid at peak post-sundown demand hours, so that it is a no-brainer to install such a thing.
> batteries
Not exclusively. A few power companies (like SRP) innovated here with TOU plans that have variable costs throughout the day. You can save huge amounts of monthly spend by moving energy intensive work to off-peak hours and by “priming” things ahead of peak hours, like over-cooling your house ahead of the peak window.
The most costly part of an infrastructure build out is supporting peak-of-peak - that capacity exists year round to service the demand generated by peak mid-day usage during a heatwave in July.
If you can “lop off” that peak - it dramatically reduces the infra build out cost.
Peak-of-peak tends to correspond with sunny days: mid-day in summer. I could see battery-less solar being a useful tool there.
I'm getting a battery soon so I can get paid £1/kWh to dump power at specific times with axle energy https://vpp.axle.energy/landing
Don't expect that to last. £1 per kWh = £1000 per MWh. Even when things went crazy as sanctions kicked in and Russia were attempting Blitzkrieg in Ukraine the wholesale prices never hit £1000 per MWh.
They say £1/kWh is a Beta price, that makes sense as a way to burn investor money to get people interested. Their real price is TBD. Would you take 25p per kWh with a £5 per month guarantee ? That could be at least in the ballpark of working.
Be careful with these kind of long term sell back agreements.
In the USA lots of early adopters of solar did so under net metering agreements where excess electricity is sold back at full price. After a number of years it was costing the utility companies too much money. So they updated the terms such that residents with solar buy electricity at retail prices (~$0.25) but sell it back at wholesale (~$0.04).
At least in the US, no, for one simple reason: grids in the US rarely to never have an excess amount of renewable generation capacity.
In my area natural gas is a consistent 40-60% of generated power, with solar rarely reaching more than about 30-35% at high noon in the summer.
Right now (as in at this very minute, high noon) in CA ~70% of the power being generated is renewable. That's 30% that could be solar, and isn't.
When there's excess renewable generation capacity (or about to be), sure, let's talk about installations for storing it.
In the meantime utilities are deploying battery systems for virtual grid inertia, to avoid having to use "peaker" plants, reliability when transmission lines go down, and for transmission line maintenance.
This is going to be made legal in the UK on the 27th August. Max 800w inspired by Germany. I'll definitely get some panels and see how they go.
They're a no brainer especially if Lidl can nock them out for around £200 in the centre aisle.
Unfortunately for me my back garden has too much shade for panels and I don't think I could get away with them in the front.
So that leaves a roof top install and I think once you have scaffold that you might as well have a traditional install.
Yeah I'm going to wait for lidl to do them, that's the plan anyway. Anything you can buy now is ~£600 (ecoflow is the brand I've seen). Hoping some others take the plunge first to provide some guidance.
Wish plugin batteries were part of it.
The biggest obstacle to solar in the US: utility companies.
Ask anyone who has had a system installed. Your system can be totally compliant with national and state electrical code, installed by a competent installer using staff who are licensed electricians, get a stamp of approval from your own's inspectors - and the utility will refuse to connect it and insist you meet an additional set of their own conditions.
And there's nothing you can do about it. No appeals, no review process, nothing.
It's not even consistent, with utilities seeming to just obstruct for the sake of obstructing. Over and over I've of systems going in, the utility comes out (eventually) to inspect, refuses to connect. They're called back out, nothing has changed, and the system gets approved.
This is legislatures getting tired of all that power company bullshit, and bypassing them. As balcony solar rules hit state legislatures, expect some really absurd scare campaigns by power companies, and lots of lobbying.
Power companies see every solar panel they don't own as a threat to the profits they make on their fossil fuel power plants.
> Ask anyone who has had a system installed.
This didn't happen to me or anyone else I know with rooftop solar in multiple states, and I've never heard of it. What citations do you have?
Which are the high quality chinese brands of plug-in panels?
I've seen Ecoflow mentioned on YouTube but I don't know how reliable that is.
Let's just point out that it isn't about the line workers, it is about raising prices on consumers.
They'll replace the line worker at the drop of a hat, and fight tooth and nail to grow profits, that's just how corporations work.
Anyone have good suggestions for stands for 2-4 panels?
One thing I've read is that if you can dual sided panels mounted on a frame over white gravel and really boost secondary feed as much as 20 to 30%.
If they're mounted on a roof then obviously you can't benefit from that so it would be cheaper to go with single sided panels.
There was a carport fire in my building back in the 90's. The firefighters got all set up to turn their hoses on it but did not actually start using water to fight the fire until the utility guy from the city arrived to de-energize the supply from a nearby vault.
How does that safety protocol work when the electrical connections and supplies are distributed around the house and may be inaccessible due to fire?
In Germany, where this kind of plug-in solar panels is very common (1.5 GW installed power) it is mandatory that the inverter powers itself down as soon as the grid is offline/disconnected. It has to be so fast that you can savely touch the plug after unplugging it. I guess it's standard everywhere.
Actually the rule is that your solar system must stop feeding power to the utility if the utility is down. You are allowed to run in isolated mode if your system supports that. Yes, even in Germany.
Every way I can think it through, isolated mode means your house is disconnected from the utility when you lose power, which requires more equipment than can be contained in a plug in solar panel.
I imagine the solar panel will detect when the circuit it is plugged in to is de-energised and stop supplying supplemental power to it.
This is exactly how our rooftop solar works. The inverter only supplies ac power if it can sync to the grid frequency meaning that the system disconnects without a live grid connection. Even if I had a battery, this would still be a requirement under local regulations.
companies that sell plug-in systems argue that safety risks are minimal or nonexistent. Mr. Scherer of Craftstrom said his company’s systems would not shock electrical workers because they shut off automatically within one second of a power disruption or grid outage.
Mr. Boyce of UL Solutions said his company would certify panels only if they did not pose a risk to consumers or utility workers.
Maybe the fact that these panels are legal around the world and soon will be legal in a number of US states should be a sign to you that this is not a relevant concern.
The device looks for an existing signal from the grid, and if it doesn't find it, it stops feeding power. It even waits for 3-5 minutes before trying again plus some random jitter to avoid thundering herd. It's been a standard in Europe for a while and now finally in the US. This of course depends on the utility and state as not all of them have adopted it but it's quickly becoming the standard everywhere.
IEEE 1547 (interconnection behavior), UL 1741 (inverter product safety), UL 3700 (plug-in solar). (also there are newer revisions you need of some standards like UL 1741)
Also, utility line workers always treat everything as live until they isolate it and confirm it’s not live (or do the work live in some cases).
I once chatted with some line workers working nearby, and I asked them what they did about residential solar. They said they didn’t particularly care about anti-islanding: if they needed to, they would deliberately short all the customer wires to ground, and if anything hadn’t turned off, then breakers would trip.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balcony_solar_power
So that is the standard failure mode, but do customers understand how it works?If I had a balcony solar panel, I'd definitely expect it to be providing backup power when we need it the most. I'd expect it to charge a storage battery, not backfeed into the grid.
Surface area means a lot for solar panels. An EV with a solar panel on top is laughable. I own a solar backpack that couldn't charge its power bank within 3 weeks of daily full sun. A "balcony solar panel" may not keep your smartphone charged.
Consumers in Germany generally understand that this is a cost-savings device, not a backup supply of electricity. You tell your neighbors and friends to get it because of the energy bill savings.
They are not as weak as the toy panels you are describing, but they are regulated to 800W max anyways.
This is absolutely insane. This is the most inefficient way imaginable to deploy solar power.
We could deploy 100x the capacity $/Wh with utility-scale farms. Unfortunately we are just completely failing on basic coordination problems like this in the west, every man for himself.
It is inefficient in the grand scheme of things yes. But it is very efficient on the level of the individual home owner, especially if they do not own the building so cannot install solar. It is a good way to cheaply reduce the cost of electricity.
Yes, installing the solar power globally, and getting a globally connected grid would be more efficient in terms of solar panels/kW(h). But alas, that also requires a lot more infrastructure.
In the mean time this can reduce the energy bill for many people. Especially, if tied to a battery. It is not intended to provide independence, for that you need a lot more capacity.