Personally I also don't see the niche they serve. If I'm going far away I take a train or a car. I pretty much exclusively use my bike to ride to a nearby grocery store or do other close-by errands. If I'm doing short errands like this, I really prize being able to get on and off quickly and lock my bike up quickly. A device like this needs to be taken with you when you leave your bike to prevent theft. It's a whole nother step and a lot of extra weight
Conventional drives will destroy bike chains and cassettes quickly. I'd rather change a $30 tire, actually.
Earlier this year, I wore a chain in just two months! (That's human power; I am not motorized, but "naturally perspirated"). I had the same tires 11 years on that bike, in whcih time I had numerous chains and cassettes.
If a frictional drive reduces someone's rear tire life to two years, or even one, but lets them greatly prolong their pedal drive train components (by doing all the hill work in situations where the regular drive train would be stressed), that could be totally worth it.
This Asus thing can be put onto a nice bike that isn't a piece of shit boat anchor, like the typical e-bike --- and just as easily taken off. It could be used as a secret weapon: someone can maintain an image as a natural cyclist, and just whip this thing out when out on a ride somewhere out of sight.
Yeah. I don’t see weather or theft addressed in this design.
I recall a wheel-mounted rotor system from a few years back that did address theft, tire-wear, and weather, but it suffered from far too little torque and very limited battery life.
I had a gas powered goped that worked that way years ago. Had all those problems but it was fun. The second you hit any water the drive shaft would just spin against the tire.
Ouch, love to see a great product like this. However, hate to see that bike theft wasn’t discussed at all.
“Easy installation” with two screws seems like a benefit to customers except when they come back to their parked bike only to find their expensive mod also had a hidden feature: “easy uninstallation”.
If I'm carrying around a giant battery I ought to be able to charge my devices from it, but it is silent on that front.
The design doesn't work if you have a mud guard or pannier rack. Also unclear how easily it is detached. Do I have to take it off everytime to prevent casual thievery? How do I take it off to charge inside? Does it have anti-theft bricking?
I'm struggling to understand who the target market is.
A couple other people here mentioned that theft is an issue. That's yet another reason why folding bikes seemed like the best use case for this. Not as good as a folding bike that's made for being an E bike, but if you've already got a good folding bike and a bit more zip on your commute is what you need, this seems like a interesting product.
That might be the easiest ebike retrofit/conversion I've ever seen. I have concerns about the grip in wet conditions but this looks like a great way to get that ebike I've wanted and not put my perfectly good frame to waste.
Similar friction drives have existed for a while. The battery is very small compared to a regular ebike (typically they start at about 300wh.) Also, IIRC the friction drive is not very efficient.
I think the number of people who want to use something like this when it's icy out is pretty small. You'd want studded tires, for instance... and it's generally those who are really committed who ride in those conditions. This looks more like 'dipping a toe in the eBike water'.
I saw. Most entry-level ebikes have at least 10ah * 36v batteries; a few lightweight models have 7ah. So this has about half the battery capacity of the cheapest ebikes.
All these sites have hype about AI features like AI Chat. however I use the chat, and it wastes about 3-10 seconds just to load, then I ask for the price, and it fails to understand even the page we were on (edit: "I don't understand what product you're referring to, please tell me the product"). Then I literally paste the page's product from the page into the chat, and it finally wastes my time more and sends a whole essay blob about why it can't tell me the price.
Is this what investors sell to the board about how they are using AI for greater efficiency? Just to waste consumers time even more?
In the USA, there are more than 52 jurisdictions not including towns and cities and counties, but most (not all) states think of ebikes as being slightly restricted bicycles rather than motorcycles, as long as:
- they have functional pedals (otherwise it's a motorcycle of some kind)
- they require pedal assist at all times and have some kind of power or speed limitation (anyone can use this, or at least it is least restricted)
- they have pedal assist available and have a different, higher power or speed limitation (usually reserved for 16+ or something similar)
- they have a power or speed limitation that makes them suitable for adults only but doesn't require a driver's license or inspection
There are efforts to regularize these, and also efforts to make things more chaotic. For example, New Jersey decided that all ebikes require a new ebike license and vehicle registration. Across the river in New York, no ebikes require a license or registration, and may be operated on any street which has a 30mph speed limit or less... but cities are allowed to make their own rules.
California's laws are mostly regarded by bicyclists as being sensible, at least in every discussion I've seen that didn't feature a twelve year old trying to convince his parents to buy him a 70mph electric motorcycle. See https://thecyclistchoice.com/resources/california-ebike-laws...
In most jurisdictions it's only a motorcycle if it can exceed a certain speed or has a motor over a certain power in kilowatts. Or some combination of both.
There's no restriction on manufacturing e-bikes anywhere that I know of, as long as they obey the speed/power limits. (That's why it says 500W "peak" power - the continuous power limit in the UK at least is 250W but manufacturers just make the "peak" last for a very long time.)
some bike vendor told me that the biggest problem with regular to ebike conversion was that regular bike frames were not strong enough to support the additional forces that the electric bike imposed. And it was why the ebikes were much heavier than regular bikes.
Does anyone know if that’s true and if that applies to conversions like this one?
Depends on the bike and motor combo. Something like a mountain bike from the last 20 years would be fine, but I wouldn’t try and put one on like a road bike from the 70s or something. Basically anything that’s well built sturdy steel is going to be ok with the common sub kilowatt motors, but there are like crazy ones that will output considerably more power than that.
Also that’s going to be more applicable with a mid drive or a hub motor than something like this.
These would be great for many places that have storage restrictions on e-bikes, but not normal bikes. So you can easily detach and bring with you before storing it.
i have a folding cycle and a fat bike. my only two devices still analog and keep me reasonably fit. i dont wanna e-bike them. but if i wanna long distance, this could be nice.
Haha, I like all these adapter designs though my favourite was the Copenhagen Wheel[0]. I saw someone ride one near Mission and S Van Ness and loved it. Sleek device. This particular one is definitely built for safe societies, right? Definitely not for the North American market, haha!
Friction drive e-bike conversions were popular years ago.
They generally:
* Wear tires surprisingly quickly
* Absolutely suck in any form of weather or terrain condition (dirt, rain, etc.)
* Have ~20% less efficiency than any other drive form.
But, they are easy, and they do work.
Personally I also don't see the niche they serve. If I'm going far away I take a train or a car. I pretty much exclusively use my bike to ride to a nearby grocery store or do other close-by errands. If I'm doing short errands like this, I really prize being able to get on and off quickly and lock my bike up quickly. A device like this needs to be taken with you when you leave your bike to prevent theft. It's a whole nother step and a lot of extra weight
Conventional drives will destroy bike chains and cassettes quickly. I'd rather change a $30 tire, actually.
Earlier this year, I wore a chain in just two months! (That's human power; I am not motorized, but "naturally perspirated"). I had the same tires 11 years on that bike, in whcih time I had numerous chains and cassettes.
If a frictional drive reduces someone's rear tire life to two years, or even one, but lets them greatly prolong their pedal drive train components (by doing all the hill work in situations where the regular drive train would be stressed), that could be totally worth it.
This Asus thing can be put onto a nice bike that isn't a piece of shit boat anchor, like the typical e-bike --- and just as easily taken off. It could be used as a secret weapon: someone can maintain an image as a natural cyclist, and just whip this thing out when out on a ride somewhere out of sight.
Yeah. I don’t see weather or theft addressed in this design.
I recall a wheel-mounted rotor system from a few years back that did address theft, tire-wear, and weather, but it suffered from far too little torque and very limited battery life.
They could have made basically the same thing except with a sprocket to help drive the chain.
I had a gas powered goped that worked that way years ago. Had all those problems but it was fun. The second you hit any water the drive shaft would just spin against the tire.
Ouch, love to see a great product like this. However, hate to see that bike theft wasn’t discussed at all.
“Easy installation” with two screws seems like a benefit to customers except when they come back to their parked bike only to find their expensive mod also had a hidden feature: “easy uninstallation”.
pitlock pit stoppers?
https://www.pitlock.de/en/set-sichert-2-innensechskantschrau...
In addition to the theft concerns, it's also not a great product.
for the non bikers, to help us understand, whats wrong with it?
Limited power delivery, horrible in the rain, prevents using fenders
Rain is an interesting thing, because the number of bikers in Tokyo goes down maybe by 60% or more the second it rains. I kinda avoid as well.
Would you need a fender with it there?
Yes, without a fender my rear wheel throws mud all over my back. This is not the right shape to serve as a mud shield
They aren’t reliable or efficient.
This product is for people who live in safe neighborhoods and bike a lot, aka not the average American.
Clive Sinclair designed one of these in the 90s. It actually sold reasonably well, but was limited by the available battery technology of the period.
https://rk.nvg.ntnu.no/sinclair/vehicles/zeta.htm
If I ever convert my bike to electric, I'll probably go with this https://www.swytchbike.com/
If I'm carrying around a giant battery I ought to be able to charge my devices from it, but it is silent on that front.
The design doesn't work if you have a mud guard or pannier rack. Also unclear how easily it is detached. Do I have to take it off everytime to prevent casual thievery? How do I take it off to charge inside? Does it have anti-theft bricking?
I'm struggling to understand who the target market is.
"How do I take it off to charge inside?"
It has a removable battery so it seems the mechanism is designed to be left on the bike.
A couple other people here mentioned that theft is an issue. That's yet another reason why folding bikes seemed like the best use case for this. Not as good as a folding bike that's made for being an E bike, but if you've already got a good folding bike and a bit more zip on your commute is what you need, this seems like a interesting product.
That might be the easiest ebike retrofit/conversion I've ever seen. I have concerns about the grip in wet conditions but this looks like a great way to get that ebike I've wanted and not put my perfectly good frame to waste.
Similar friction drives have existed for a while. The battery is very small compared to a regular ebike (typically they start at about 300wh.) Also, IIRC the friction drive is not very efficient.
Like when wet. Or icy or both.
I think the number of people who want to use something like this when it's icy out is pretty small. You'd want studded tires, for instance... and it's generally those who are really committed who ride in those conditions. This looks more like 'dipping a toe in the eBike water'.
Looks more like a "hill assist device" to me.
This one is 158 Wh
I saw. Most entry-level ebikes have at least 10ah * 36v batteries; a few lightweight models have 7ah. So this has about half the battery capacity of the cheapest ebikes.
Given the size of it and the significantly less weight it adds to the bicycle, I'd say half capacity is pretty fantastic.
(Of course, "capacity" is misleading, as this will be less efficient than a real e-bike.)
Get a Bafang kit or a hub motor replacement rear wheel instead. At least those systems work well.
I mean I agree but those aren't zero-skill install like this.
Have a look at Bafang or Tongsheng kits
Am I missing something or that thing can be trivially stolen?
All these sites have hype about AI features like AI Chat. however I use the chat, and it wastes about 3-10 seconds just to load, then I ask for the price, and it fails to understand even the page we were on (edit: "I don't understand what product you're referring to, please tell me the product"). Then I literally paste the page's product from the page into the chat, and it finally wastes my time more and sends a whole essay blob about why it can't tell me the price.
Is this what investors sell to the board about how they are using AI for greater efficiency? Just to waste consumers time even more?
It's fashionable and it takes strong leadership to avoid fashionable things even when they make absolutely no sense
Similar things are on amazon today 300-500. Not worth it imho. If you are going to keep it on, convert your bike with middrive or hub motor once.
How do these things work legally? Wouldn't the bolt on process count as manufacturing or modifying a motorcycle, depending on where you are?
In the USA, there are more than 52 jurisdictions not including towns and cities and counties, but most (not all) states think of ebikes as being slightly restricted bicycles rather than motorcycles, as long as:
- they have functional pedals (otherwise it's a motorcycle of some kind)
- they require pedal assist at all times and have some kind of power or speed limitation (anyone can use this, or at least it is least restricted)
- they have pedal assist available and have a different, higher power or speed limitation (usually reserved for 16+ or something similar)
- they have a power or speed limitation that makes them suitable for adults only but doesn't require a driver's license or inspection
There are efforts to regularize these, and also efforts to make things more chaotic. For example, New Jersey decided that all ebikes require a new ebike license and vehicle registration. Across the river in New York, no ebikes require a license or registration, and may be operated on any street which has a 30mph speed limit or less... but cities are allowed to make their own rules.
California's laws are mostly regarded by bicyclists as being sensible, at least in every discussion I've seen that didn't feature a twelve year old trying to convince his parents to buy him a 70mph electric motorcycle. See https://thecyclistchoice.com/resources/california-ebike-laws...
They should require insurance at least. An ebike can cause serious injury to a pedestrian.
So can a regular bike. Human powered bikes regularly blow past me when I'm doing the 15mph speed limits on the bike paths.
That’s the same as a pushbike right?
So can a non-ebike. A couple of hundred pounds hitting you at 15-20mph is gonna suck no matter how it's powered.
Poor people commute on e-bikes. Think twice before making laws that raise the cost and give cops a reason to hassle people.
In most jurisdictions it's only a motorcycle if it can exceed a certain speed or has a motor over a certain power in kilowatts. Or some combination of both.
recent news: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c89nyk4pz74o
There's no restriction on manufacturing e-bikes anywhere that I know of, as long as they obey the speed/power limits. (That's why it says 500W "peak" power - the continuous power limit in the UK at least is 250W but manufacturers just make the "peak" last for a very long time.)
So ah, can we buy it? What's the price? Not seeing unless ad blockers are hiding something.
According to articles like this one[0], they haven't shared pricing yet - so I guess it can't be bought quite yet.
[0]: https://www.digitaltrends.com/outdoors/asus-made-an-e-bike-c...
They aint new. I had one that was driven by a honda gx35 4 stroke
there was another company named "bee" something that did these (gas as well 2 stroke)
and many early scooters, conversions, that all followed the friction style
I love bicycle tech. Almost everything was invented in the 1890s, and every couple of decades someone tries another old idea.
https://onlinebicyclemuseum.co.uk/tour/cyclemotors-motorcycl...
> Almost everything was invented in the 1890s, and every couple of decades someone tries another old idea.
What about wireless shifting systems like Di2?
> wireless shifting systems like Di2
Is it really wireless?
The SRAM one is.
some bike vendor told me that the biggest problem with regular to ebike conversion was that regular bike frames were not strong enough to support the additional forces that the electric bike imposed. And it was why the ebikes were much heavier than regular bikes.
Does anyone know if that’s true and if that applies to conversions like this one?
Depends on the bike and motor combo. Something like a mountain bike from the last 20 years would be fine, but I wouldn’t try and put one on like a road bike from the 70s or something. Basically anything that’s well built sturdy steel is going to be ok with the common sub kilowatt motors, but there are like crazy ones that will output considerably more power than that.
Also that’s going to be more applicable with a mid drive or a hub motor than something like this.
Weight
3.7 kg (including battery)
These suck, just buy an e-bike they are awesome.
These would be great for many places that have storage restrictions on e-bikes, but not normal bikes. So you can easily detach and bring with you before storing it.
The idea of being able to quickly switch a bike back and forth between a regular one and an e-bike seems cool. They lost me at the "smart" though...
any particular one you recommend in usa
my costco has magnum melody
Pretty nice bike. I bought a Evelo with a belt drive and a automatic CVT transmission that is really nice to ride.
i have a folding cycle and a fat bike. my only two devices still analog and keep me reasonably fit. i dont wanna e-bike them. but if i wanna long distance, this could be nice.
It only gives a boost for 50km.
lol. A friction drive in current year?
Haha, I like all these adapter designs though my favourite was the Copenhagen Wheel[0]. I saw someone ride one near Mission and S Van Ness and loved it. Sleek device. This particular one is definitely built for safe societies, right? Definitely not for the North American market, haha!
0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_Wheel
It went on sale in the US before the EU. Did you even skim the wiki page you linked?