The problem with this stuff is (as the article mentions) is that it’s going to take a while to figure out whether any benefit is just temporary.
I would guess that there are a lot of variables to eliminate too - eg is it possible that just having a surgery and recovering from anaesthesia can yield some of these benefits in some circumstances? Given that we don’t really understand how most inhaled anaesthetics fully work
I've witnessed dementia patients take a fall, and then be dramatically more confused the next couple days. I've also seen them get some kind of social exposure, sunshine, exercise, etc. and present better for several days afterwards. Measuring "how well is the mind working" isn't like reading a digital meter.
Firstly it’s not curing anything, it’s yielding some improvement. But secondly: what surgeries are performed on people with Alzheimer’s disease, let alone ones where cognitive improvement is even going to be monitored or noticed afterwards? (and even if it were noticed: periods of lucidity are not rare. It would probably be ignored)
This article soars from hope to hype to skepticism. I guess that's a consequence of reporting on the fringes of science.
In particular, I wish there was more detail on the 100-cohort study where patients experienced "modest improvements" and how that's calculated. Is that average increase of X points on an MMSE, etc.
In my experience in my family, dementia is not a linear slide. My 85yo mother with Alzheimer's will sometimes present very well and you have to really get into conversational details to notice the dementia. On other days, she'll pick up a paperback and try to use it as a phone. Some days she's steady on her feet, some days coordinating all of those muscles is just too much.
Over the course of a couple years, you can track the decline, but it's not a straight line. "Modest improvements" makes me concerned that they measured a valley to a peak. It's only 6 months since the 100-cohort study.
It would be great if it works out, but I believe this treatment has been suspended in China as there are mixed results (ie people have ended up worse).
Being from Scotland I'd trust an NHS evaluation more than random news reports.
But that would suggest that this cures some form of Alzheimer's but not all forms.
If your Alzheimer's is caused by poor drainage due to a one off blockage this would solve it completely, but if its due to something else this would probably just be temporary as the article notes.
It seems China is repeating similar mistakes the western world did in the 20th century (e.g. psychosurgery, very weak regulations). It's like watching a car seconds before crash and you can't do anything to stop it.
> The rapid adoption, in the absence of hard evidence, prompted Chinese regulators to intervene. Last year, they restricted the procedure to more-formalized clinical research settings, rather than the ad hoc use that had proliferated previously. And Xie, the pioneer of the technique, has been in detention since September for undisclosed reasons.
There is probably also some benefit to being willing to let some harm come to patients in order to quickly determine if treatments are viable or not. Western medicine puts a premium on human life but development of treatments is certainly slowed by that ethos .
It puts a "premium" on life only because all those regulations were written with blood from those who can't defend themselves anymore as those same arguments were used back then as they are today.
The problem with this stuff is (as the article mentions) is that it’s going to take a while to figure out whether any benefit is just temporary.
I would guess that there are a lot of variables to eliminate too - eg is it possible that just having a surgery and recovering from anaesthesia can yield some of these benefits in some circumstances? Given that we don’t really understand how most inhaled anaesthetics fully work
Yes, indeed.
I've witnessed dementia patients take a fall, and then be dramatically more confused the next couple days. I've also seen them get some kind of social exposure, sunshine, exercise, etc. and present better for several days afterwards. Measuring "how well is the mind working" isn't like reading a digital meter.
If anesthetics cured Alzheimer's temporarily then any surgery would get the same effect and we would already know about it.
Firstly it’s not curing anything, it’s yielding some improvement. But secondly: what surgeries are performed on people with Alzheimer’s disease, let alone ones where cognitive improvement is even going to be monitored or noticed afterwards? (and even if it were noticed: periods of lucidity are not rare. It would probably be ignored)
> Firstly it’s not curing anything, it’s yielding some improvement
It did cure some people, it yielded some improvements on average but it did yield extreme improvements in some people. That part isn't controversial.
> (and even if it were noticed: periods of lucidity are not rare. It would probably be ignored)
A year of being able to walk and talk normally when a patient could barely function at all would be noticed for sure.
I agree. Very likely to be brushed off as "you're having a good day today" unless you are looking for it.
This article soars from hope to hype to skepticism. I guess that's a consequence of reporting on the fringes of science.
In particular, I wish there was more detail on the 100-cohort study where patients experienced "modest improvements" and how that's calculated. Is that average increase of X points on an MMSE, etc.
In my experience in my family, dementia is not a linear slide. My 85yo mother with Alzheimer's will sometimes present very well and you have to really get into conversational details to notice the dementia. On other days, she'll pick up a paperback and try to use it as a phone. Some days she's steady on her feet, some days coordinating all of those muscles is just too much.
Over the course of a couple years, you can track the decline, but it's not a straight line. "Modest improvements" makes me concerned that they measured a valley to a peak. It's only 6 months since the 100-cohort study.
It would be great if it works out, but I believe this treatment has been suspended in China as there are mixed results (ie people have ended up worse).
Being from Scotland I'd trust an NHS evaluation more than random news reports.
Alzheimer's is so devastating that I can't blame people for being willing to give it a go even if it's an experimental treatment.
The government shouldn't be in the business of telling people what they can do, or have done, to their own bodies.
Government absolutely should tell people what they could do to some degree - vulnerable people are very prone to being scammed.
> I believe this treatment has been suspended in China
And the surgeon is in prison according to the article.
But that would suggest that this cures some form of Alzheimer's but not all forms.
If your Alzheimer's is caused by poor drainage due to a one off blockage this would solve it completely, but if its due to something else this would probably just be temporary as the article notes.
> as there are mixed results
Huh. You completely made that up. Where in the article does it say that? Here's the truth from the article:
> Last year, they restricted the procedure to more-formalized clinical research settings,
It is the hallmark of a lowlife to suppress research.
It seems China is repeating similar mistakes the western world did in the 20th century (e.g. psychosurgery, very weak regulations). It's like watching a car seconds before crash and you can't do anything to stop it.
The article explicitly states:
> The rapid adoption, in the absence of hard evidence, prompted Chinese regulators to intervene. Last year, they restricted the procedure to more-formalized clinical research settings, rather than the ad hoc use that had proliferated previously. And Xie, the pioneer of the technique, has been in detention since September for undisclosed reasons.
There is probably also some benefit to being willing to let some harm come to patients in order to quickly determine if treatments are viable or not. Western medicine puts a premium on human life but development of treatments is certainly slowed by that ethos .
It puts a "premium" on life only because all those regulations were written with blood from those who can't defend themselves anymore as those same arguments were used back then as they are today.
bot comment
> very weak regulations
Seems you missed out on 10-15 years of development. Regulation strictness these days rival western.