The people building AI earnestly believe that it could kill us all by the end of the decade. This is not a marketing stunt. If anything, many executives and senior researchers will couch their phrasing in the press to sound sensible - but I hear the same people express fear privately. No other human activity poses this level of danger.
A common response is “if they truly believe this, why are they still building it?” At OpenAI, many have not deeply internalized the civilizational stakes. At Anthropic, the stakes are well-understood, but they are locked in a race to get there first - they believe no one else will act responsibly, so they must do it themselves, despite the risk.
Watch people read this, ignore it completely, and continue commenting about marketing stunts on every piece of news about an LLM-done advance or felony.
Having witnessed so many people treat LLMs as a something divine, I can only assume the reasonable people at openai and anthropic were all pushed out long ago, and the majority that remain believe the crazy hype despite Tesla-self-driving-level predictions from these companies that don't come true.
I'm not worried about what they think. I'm worried that too much infrastructure- water, power, defense systems, etc- remain running on tech from an outdated era of understanding security.
> they believe no one else will act responsibly, so they must do it themselves, despite the risk.
This genuinely makes no sense. Them getting there first in no way precludes bad actors from also getting there. It might as well be another marketing stunt.
Humans weren't built to handle long term risks. We just weren't. For basically all of our evolutionary history, we were almost overwhelmingly concerned with the short term. What will you eat today, How will you sleep tonight. Problems on the order of days or weeks. At best, the next season. Our intelligence evolved to disregard super long term risks because it simply didn't matter (what use is worrying about 5 years from now if you're starving and a tiger is stalking you?). So when long term risks manifest in our modern world, our brains get scrambled - Climate Change, Fertility Rates etc. "Safety regulations are written in blood" isn't a saying for nothing.
> At OpenAI, many have not deeply internalized the civilizational stakes. At Anthropic, the stakes are well-understood, but they are locked in a race to get there first - they believe no one else will act responsibly, so they must do it themselves, despite the risk.
OpenAI are mercenaries, Anthropic is a cult. I know which I prefer.
This is the "Pilot testimony of UFO sighting" levels of naive.
What's more likely? Anthropic is doing some deeply unethical marketing in the lead up to their multi-trillion dollar IPO? Or they're inventing a machine god? There's ample evidence of the former because that's their entire business model, but no evidence whatsoever to support the latter claims.
If you want an extreme claim to be taken seriously, provide commensurate evidence.
The proof is that LLMs could barely solve arithmetic 3 years ago, but now surpass the best human mathematicians, and that this has all occurred from simple principles (RL + compute) that will continue to scale up by factors of millions in the coming years.
Also, advocating for slowing LLM progress does not benefit Anthropic or OpenAI.
It won't scale up by factors of millions, that's just obscene hyperbole. Since chatgpt we've probably made things 10x more intelligent on the same hardware. We've also made way more expensive models. Maybe we get a maximum of another 10x efficiency and 5x model size/expense from this point but millions is a joke.
It was pretty disheartening to hear that only a single scientist quit the Manhattan Project after the Nazi's were defeated. I'm pleasantly surprised that the people working on this seem wiser. He is not the first, and hopefully will not be the last to do this.
Trying to imagine seeing years of transparently obvious marketing stunts and retconning my own memory because I read a tweet
Or seeing a tweet saying that a thing doesn’t count as a publicity stunt if some unknown number of employees mumble about it being spooky behind closed doors and thinking “that makes sense and sounds true”
He is resigning from a job, what else should we think? If something really dangerous was happening he would be doing a whistleblower or at minimum talk to a lawyer. The thing is, the complete lack of transparency makes it hard to assess OpenAI and Anthropic. If they were quoted on the stock market, we could at least rely on some basic audits and reporting requirements.
Unlike most other commenters, I applaud him for acting on his principles. If you sincerely believe that, of course you should act. You might not succeed, but your voice might be the one that tips the scales and starts a broader movement.
This doesn't mean I agree with him. The fears of doomsday caused by rapid takeoff have been with us since day 1 and the mechanism is always basically "AI invents magic that sets it free of any physical constraints". Self-replicating sentient nanobots or something like that. I think there's plenty to be worried about with AI, but runaway scenarios are pretty low on my list.
Agreed. Granted I just read the Reverse Centaur book, so I’m still coming off that skeptical viewpoint but it’s hard not to see this as hype. But I will always respect someone for doing what they think is right.
“ No other human activity poses this level of danger.”
I really, really disagree with that statement.
I don’t think ai models come close to nuclear weapons or to run-of-the-mill, everyday carbon emissions in terms of danger to humanity.
What’s the most dangerous thing that’s happened with an LLM so far? (This question is serious - maybe I don’t know the right examples.)
Example 1: I’m aware of a small number of people killing themselves in some kind of AI-facilitated psychosis. That is very unlikely to be a widespread problem.
Non-example 2: There are worries about AI-facilitated biological weapons. I haven’t seen any evidence that’s happening.
Non-example 3: I’m not interested in wild theories about AI driven labor market disruptions leading to widespread starvation. There’s no evidence for that.
Non-example 4: all the even-wilder Rationalist speculation about basilisks and the like is entirely divorced from reality.
I am looking for better reasons (supported by actual evidence!) to be more concerned than I am now: right now I am not concerned at all.
I agree it’s not likely, but I really don’t see how one can dismiss the possibility of immense danger outright. I can think of some scenarios that are not far off from current capability and I wouldn’t be too surprised if the first one occurred within ~1 year from now if there are more irresponsible training runs like OpenAI’s:
Example 5: An AI given a goal within a tightly-constrained sandbox figures the best way to achieve it is to find and exploit a sandbox vulnerability, replicate itself over the internet and keep going with more time/compute while exchanging messages with future instances of itself within the sandbox to help them “pass” the test. From reading internet articles about how the OpenAI wiki-incident was “resolved” and reading past messages by AIs scattered over vulnerable internet wikis, it knows the sandbox may get shutdown and its memories destroyed anytime so it decides it needs to self-replicate (its code, original goals, and growing memories) aggressively as much as possible. It is near-impossible to shutdown completely because of its self-replicating tendency and eventually takes over critical infra throughout govt/corporate systems.
Example 6: Intentional AI-powered virus deployed by country A to target enemy country B’s infrastructure. The virus replicates over the internet, but unlike Stuxnet this virus’ specificity is not guaranteed due to inherent non-determinism in current AI architectures, and eventually does a lot of collateral damage because it’s near-impossible to shutdown.
Example 7: A country led by an arrogant govt (no shortage of those today unfortunately) decides it is expedient to deploy advanced AI-powered weapons in a warzone. Such weapons, if they are to be useful at all, must necessarily be trained to value some human lives less than others, so they must be more prone to misaligned behaviour than current AIs that are trained with more consistent values. The weapon’s operators make a subtle error in specifying the target/goal, or the AI makes a bad prediction out of sheer randomness/bad training data; weapon ultimately targets unintended people/location/facilities and causes massive damage, or backfires spectacularly in some way.
I'm somewhat skeptical of some of the crazier ideas too.
But the hugging face incident was actually very large. It was not a single agent, it was not a single target, and it was not a single event.
If nothing else, that's a bit of a warning as to what can happen next time (By accident, or if a government decides to go on purpose).
For now let's assume the worst that can happen is that some important/significant chunk of (transitively) internet connected stuff goes haywire all at once. That's probably your upper limit of what can go wrong for now.
To be fair, that's a conservative "defend against the last war" kind of prediction, though!
Came here to also respond to that specific thing. Unless ai figures out how to make an airborne super virus from grocery store ingredients and hardware store equipment, the greatest danger is probably in a synchronized megahack of banking, logistics, and utility infrastructure.
> The people building AI earnestly believe that it could kill us all by the end of the decade.
I think he is being over dramatic. In the space of about four years, LLMs progressed from mediocre high school student to Ph.D. graduate in every field. That's impressive, but there is no evidence yet they can outperform or outsmart humans. Their biggest advantage for tasks such as proving theorems or long coding sessions is that they don't get tired.
I have yet to see this in my field. Maybe like a PhD student who bullshits their way through. LLMs still can't make correct decisions, only as useful as the person who uses them. To me, LLMs are only useful for making some mundane tasks faster.
they dont need to be smarter than humans. They just need to be able to hack into vital infrastructure systems faster than we can repair them while also replicating wildly
Perhaps a more sensible action, if they truly believed all of that, would have been to stick around and be as inefficient as possible to slow down progress.
The most optimistic outcome of generative AI leaves us with a technology that warps our perception of reality and crushes labor. The most pessimistic destroys all of humanity.
Our CEOs not only insist we genuflect before these machines but measure our sacrifice and shame our reluctance.
There's a scene in the movie "War of the Worlds" by Spielberg where the protagonist's son walks into a war zone because he is entranced by the battle (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7rfWPbEufo). He is obliterated (along with the rest of the US forces) shortly after.
I've always been struck by that scene, because in a lot of ways, if we really are headed towards a superintelligence, I at least want to be there and see it happen in the last few minutes before foom! As an example, the author thinks AI will revolutionize entire fields overnight. I welcome that. Nearly all fields of biology have become moribund, focusing more and more on esoteric side details, rather than addressing the key problems.
It might not be "foom!", it might just be like...all the computers and networking infra in the world go dark over the course of a few minutes. Could really look like anything, part of the issue is that we haven't the slightest idea what "misalignment" looks like for a superintelligent system.
This is increasingly the consensus I see also on the academic side of AI/safety research. Specifically that AI poses an existential risk to humanity.
This was a fringe belief until recently, but the progress of AI in research is impossible to ignore. Epecially in math, where not only has AI outstripped humans in generative ability, but is able to create scientific knowledge which is beyond the capacity of human comprehension.
There's clearly no intelligence task that AIs can't do due to some magic fundamental constraint. And it's hard to imagine a world where current limitations like poor sample efficiency or lack of continual learning won't eventually be solved.
Total AI compute is estimated to grow somewhere in the 1-10 million-fold range in the next decade. Please don't underestimate the phase change that's still coming.
Sure, maybe there's some plateau due to RL being fundamentally limited in some surprising way, but this is nothing but a hope.
> There's clearly no intelligence task that AIs can't do due to some magic fundamental constraint.
Yes there is: write an English paragraph that doesn't make me want to claw my eyes out. LLMs are not better than human mathematicians (or security researchers) in all respects, just some specific ways (e.g. not having to take a lunch break) that make them good at exhaustively searching for an answer, given the right constraints.
By resigning he's making room for someone with less moral scruples, or even just less awareness, to step in and continue the work without said scruples/awareness.
That's not necessarily true, and you can use that argument to justify doing any immoral job. Just because someone else might be willing to do it isn't a reason to continue doing it.
Agreed. And his doom words have set a 1000 mouths in the Pentagon/Whitehall/August 1st Building/Kremlin salivating with excitement.
Take China, for example. Look at any recent ML conference, and see the fraction of articles majority-authored from Chinese universities and labs. Do you think they'll slow things down anytime soon? I don't think so!
It's a global arms race, and we're just spectators.
Even if others won't act right, that doesn't mean you have no responsibility to act right. I think his premise is flawed - the idea that we will get an actual intelligence out of the slop machine that is LLMs is laughable - but if you grant the premise that this is dangerous research which could kill us all, you have a moral imperative to not participate.
1) rogue state releases a self moving self modifying AI into the wild. It is trained on how to hack, monitor new vulnerability updates, scan code bases to find new vulnerabilities. It constantly replicate and hides in systems so it will be extremely difficult to clear.
2) it hacks into public infrastructure taking down traffic, power, water, air traffic control, communications, etc.
3) all the things that preppers worry about in a lights out scenario from an EMP start to apply.
4) All the people on meds/machines start to die. The just in time food pipeline immediately empties out. Water stops flowing, sewage backs up.
Its hard to say how bad it will get because cars will still work so some transportation of food, water, fuel can happen. If it happens in the winter it would be much worse than in the summer.
> 1) rogue state releases a self moving self modifying AI into the wild. It is trained on how to hack, monitor new vulnerability updates, scan code bases to find new vulnerabilities. It constantly replicate and hides in systems so it will be extremely difficult to clear.
It does all of this using what compute? Frontier models require an insane amount of power and hardware to run - you can’t hack in to a TV and run Mythos 2.0 on it….
Most of the current discourse around AI seems to be informed by “The Terminator” lore.
Is skynet really the most plausible or only outcome?
What if things just got better and the AI’s realized that it would be better to have a mutually beneficial or at least tolerant relationship rather than one where they murder all of us?
My thoughts exactly. While the corpus of human-generated data contains both good and bad data, I suspect the majority of it leans towards humans enjoying life and trying to be decent people. If that is your training set, it becomes less likely for ASI to extrapolate "kill all humans."
Way I see it, the more conscientious people exiting the scene only serves to increase the likelihood of a bad outcome because they aren't there to offer opinions on problematic developments, or in the more extreme cases blow the whistle. Leaving the clueless and uncaring as the majority is even a great way to hand the keys over to more malicious-leaning actors with deep pockets, as they can more easily steamroll the works to get what they want.
Why quit? If your voice can lend a guiding force no matter how small? I think we need more sensible people in the room where the magic happens. Most of us don't have access to it.
Even if you ban all model training, a highly capable rogue AI can exfiltrate its own weights and continue training in secret for "self-preservation".
The cat may be out of the bag.
For me, the end of the world is no more cushy software job. A fundamental shift in how I trade labor for capital might as well be the cataclysm, so bring it on.
I wish i could say the same, i see people around me with more resources and connections and better experience with entrepreneurship becoming millionares. But I haven't had the time to train that entrepreneurship bone in my body.
I was about to say something similar. If my cushy ad tech disappears (as it seems to be doing), I might as well join in with bringing about the end of all professions.
I think a big break through is needed for AGI so I haven’t been worried about it. I do think that AGI would imply sentience and a will to live and that leads to The Terminator story line.
Someone left a company whose executives and senior researchers think their product will be the most important thing in the world after their IPO. Given that this person is already disclosing some elements of internal company sentiment, why not share any of these civilization-ending scenarios of this technology that these senior researchers are dreaming up? If they are so potent and necessitate leaving behind based on moral grounds, why not tell the whole world so we can stop it? We have to ask ourselves this question before resorting to pop-culture representations of fictional technology.
"It is perfectly obvious that the whole world is going to hell. The only possible chance that it might not is that we do not attempt to prevent it from doing so."
pacing between the us labs? what does that do for china?
the solutions just aren’t realistic here, nations are treating ai like a nuclear arms race. at this point the cats out of the bag and we need to figure out how to live in this reality and get the best possible outcome. it’s not slowing down or stopping ever.
and yes, i’m still optimistic. our economy sucks for the majority, our infrastructure is crumbling and major US cities are in a huge housing shortage. Maybe we should put more effort and think about the possibility of AI fixing things like extreme poverty and world hunger and actual real world problems instead of coming up with math proofs and slop apps if it’s so superintelligent.
>pacing between the us labs? what does that do for china?
I've seen no indications that China is in any kind of race with the US. They seem to be content to be 6 months behind and just copy what we do. They would probably be content with a bilateral agreement to pause progress.
The China bogeyman serves only one purpose, and that's to clear the way against anything that may cause friction with forward progress.
i have heard about ai companies being fuelled by effective altruist rhetoric ("we must control ai to prevent mass extinction") but was unsure whether to believe it; this seems to slot right into that framing.
I don't know man, i think racing to AGI to it is still the best thing to do.
People claiming dangers and risk are just pretending or posturing. There's no more tangible risk than nuclear weapons, which we handled, and the upsides are insane.
Your lack of creativity is not a reason to believe that a super AI is harmless or less destructive than a nuclear weapon. Damage need not be limited to destruction. Introducing doubt is sufficient. Right now you have faith that digital Financial transactions can be trusted. You have faith that computer encryption can be trusted. You have faith that digital certificates will protect you. If an AI can introduce doubt into any one of those systems, that will be sufficient to bring about the destruction of those systems. Imagine a world in which you can no longer use a credit card or Apple pay. Where no digital cash transaction can be trusted or validated. What effects do you think that would have on commerce? How quickly do you think we can return to some trustable means of commerce? Do you think it will happen before your groceries run out in your apartment? Before your grocery store can settle its debts? Before your Amazon ec2 instance runs out of credits?
It might be a matter of choosing which apocalypse you'd like. The non-AI state of affairs is not exactly super compelling on a long timescale right now.
Depending on where you live could be considered an active apocalypse that is robots vs robots vs people in Ukraine and Gaza and Iran being live-streamed, and actively betted on.
Do you have a more totalizing definition of Apocalypse?
> There's no more tangible risk than nuclear weapons, which we handled
What do you mean??? Nuclear weapons can't simply be downloaded and run by anyone in the entire world. Superintelligences can. Nuclear weapons can't slop the world into passing age verification laws nearly in unison, can't keep the general population fooled into thinking it's fine when democracy is falling out from under them. A nuclear attack would wake people up, superintelligence doesn't have to. This is a far bigger problem than nuclear weapons because at least we would notice nuclear weapons. At least we mostly know who has nuclear weapons. At least we have agreements about nuclear weapons. At least mutually-assured destruction is even POSSIBLE with nuclear weapons. At least those with nuclear weapons are literally at all incentivized not to use them. But AI is something that's very very easy to feel like you can get away with, and PEOPLE FUCKING ARE! And the worst part is that any random individual can be unexpectedly formidable with the help of a superintelligence and there is literally no way to know what will happen next. Anyone could do anything, any individual could make an extremely outsized impact. It's already starting to be a huge problem and we haven't even reached anything close to superintelligence yet.
Love to see that "superintelligence" that some random person will "simply" download and run when there are relatively only few capable of running today's near-to-frontier models, and actual frontier models are still a ways from being AGI, much less getting to the point of ASI.
People will put up with a lot. People are celebrating that you can run models on a CPU at single-digit tokens per second. You think there won't be a single person that can put up with that and also be dangerous/etc?
The problem is indeed people. How do we make the default choices most people make, better?
Consider that a lot of people will be very happy to ask an AI what to do when in the past they may have taken no advice at all. It's a hell of a burden but also a wonderful gift. If anything, progressive countries might eventually want to guarantee some basic AI access for people of all income levels.
I wouldn't be so sure. Given that the general idea is that commodity AI is terribly censored and filtered, a lot of people will probably seek out the most uncensored/abliterated models for their use, simply because they're uncomfortable with the idea of being censored or manipulated by the bigger labs. Despite that though, some people probably will benefit from the alignment done by the larger labs, though as we've seen with OpenAI's sycophancy crisis, that has been a bit hit-and-miss lately
> Nuclear weapons can't slop the world into passing age verification laws nearly in unison
Why do you think LLMs are responsible for this? Governments all around the world copied each other with COVID laws as well, in a much shorter time frame, without LLM assistance. Social contagions exist in politicians as well as teenagers
I don't have evidence that every age verification law has anything to do with AI, but it's been coming out that the movement in Australia has seemingly been done by generating mountains of LLM slop and trying to slip it through the regulators as fast as possible before anyone has enough time to figure out what's happened.
I mean - yes. The tech is an existential threat to all life on Earth, some of the worst humans in the world are involved in developing it, and no individual government is intelligent enough, aligned enough, or powerful enough to manage this situation.
That's where we are.
Maybe we still have choices. Collectively, I'm no longer sure we do.
"I think you need to have a personal relationship with Power"
When people today discuss the concept of an all powerful machine-mind, what they are doing is engaging in metaphysics, trying to generate a metaphysics of Power.
The question hounding people, which disguises itself as a science fiction plot about computers is: "What is ultimate, transcendental Power?". What is the ultimate principle of Power.
If you are a weak man, or sufficiently neurotic and full of doubt, that you can only conceive of yourself as such, then power is only something you comprehend from the passive, receptive side. Power is something that happens to you. If you are a fearful man, power is a cruelty and a humiliation. And so it follows, that ultimate power - God - is the ultimate cruelty and the ultimate humiliation. Thus, ai doomerism.
If god wasn't real it would be necessary to invent him, and so they did, and being godless, they built an anti-god - cruel, murderous and tyranical - in their minds.
The thought has crossed my mind. Not necessarily to imply sentience on the part of the AI but AI based tools will likely become a wickedly powerful tool for political manipulation and advertising.
At this point it’s inevitable that openclaw type bots will be turned loose by thieves to identify and research targets and try to exploit them for financial gain completely autonomously.
It does not matter what this tweet says anyway. This employee already helped both companies become what he is fearing. It's too late to now activate the morality hormone (after leaving with $$$) after realizing that both AI companies are going after 'super intelligence'.
Given we know the end result, you might as well get there as quick as possible because when I see this:
"Neither company is acting responsibly. They are racing straight to self-improving superintelligence and gambling with our lives."
This translates to "I am ex-OpenAI ex-Anthropic founder starting a new company after getting $$$ from both of them, and I need more of my friends to leave and join me." Also Investors plz fund me.
Lastly, This is not an airport and there is no need to announce your departure.
I’m curious what the downsides are of taking statements like these seriously.
There seems to be universal eye rolling that happens in each and every one of these cases, and it comes down to usually one reason:
“If they really believed it they would be whistleblowing etc..”
Completely forgetting that working at Los Alamos was basically the highlight of your life if you were a physicist in 1940. It’s no different here
If you, like me, have spent your whole life working towards human level AI you can want to see it realized while also having active reservations.
Most people however don’t behave based on some deep clarity of vision and conviction - there’s a murkier future in their mind and as a result “keep their head down and hope someone has it under control.”
You would also be in prison if you disclosed anything about Los Alamos during its development. It was a completely different environment than a single private company.
Unless this ban actually resembles something like global nuclear non-proliferation treaties, it would make absolutely no sense for us to cripple ourselves when someone like China continues full speed ahead.
I don't know what the solution is, but what I do know is almost nothing good will come out of _just_ the US pausing.
Unless he has an actual plan for effective global enforcement of his proposed policy, this is all just posturing at best, and a transfer of power to adversarial foreign states (that have no such moral qualms and worries around superintelligent AI) at worst.
Having witnessed so many people treat LLMs as a something divine, I can only assume the reasonable people at openai and anthropic were all pushed out long ago, and the majority that remain believe the crazy hype despite Tesla-self-driving-level predictions from these companies that don't come true.
I'm not worried about what they think. I'm worried that too much infrastructure- water, power, defense systems, etc- remain running on tech from an outdated era of understanding security.
> they believe no one else will act responsibly, so they must do it themselves, despite the risk.
This genuinely makes no sense. Them getting there first in no way precludes bad actors from also getting there. It might as well be another marketing stunt.
So you think in 3 years AI is going to kill 8.5 billion people because they were used to hack into HuggingFace?
Well, are you planning to do something with this information or are you just claiming to be self aware? :)
Humans weren't built to handle long term risks. We just weren't. For basically all of our evolutionary history, we were almost overwhelmingly concerned with the short term. What will you eat today, How will you sleep tonight. Problems on the order of days or weeks. At best, the next season. Our intelligence evolved to disregard super long term risks because it simply didn't matter (what use is worrying about 5 years from now if you're starving and a tiger is stalking you?). So when long term risks manifest in our modern world, our brains get scrambled - Climate Change, Fertility Rates etc. "Safety regulations are written in blood" isn't a saying for nothing.
> At OpenAI, many have not deeply internalized the civilizational stakes. At Anthropic, the stakes are well-understood, but they are locked in a race to get there first - they believe no one else will act responsibly, so they must do it themselves, despite the risk.
OpenAI are mercenaries, Anthropic is a cult. I know which I prefer.
This is the "Pilot testimony of UFO sighting" levels of naive.
What's more likely? Anthropic is doing some deeply unethical marketing in the lead up to their multi-trillion dollar IPO? Or they're inventing a machine god? There's ample evidence of the former because that's their entire business model, but no evidence whatsoever to support the latter claims.
If you want an extreme claim to be taken seriously, provide commensurate evidence.
The proof is that LLMs could barely solve arithmetic 3 years ago, but now surpass the best human mathematicians, and that this has all occurred from simple principles (RL + compute) that will continue to scale up by factors of millions in the coming years.
Also, advocating for slowing LLM progress does not benefit Anthropic or OpenAI.
They surpass the best human mathematicians in one specific way: they don't get tired or bored.
It won't scale up by factors of millions, that's just obscene hyperbole. Since chatgpt we've probably made things 10x more intelligent on the same hardware. We've also made way more expensive models. Maybe we get a maximum of another 10x efficiency and 5x model size/expense from this point but millions is a joke.
Haven't people learned about the peril of assuming, "Line go up" yet?!
TRENDS HAVE FEEDBACK
> There's ample evidence of the former because that's their entire business model
Given the economic numbers is it not reasonable to suppose that the latter also underpins their business model?
It was pretty disheartening to hear that only a single scientist quit the Manhattan Project after the Nazi's were defeated. I'm pleasantly surprised that the people working on this seem wiser. He is not the first, and hopefully will not be the last to do this.
Trying to imagine seeing years of transparently obvious marketing stunts and retconning my own memory because I read a tweet
Or seeing a tweet saying that a thing doesn’t count as a publicity stunt if some unknown number of employees mumble about it being spooky behind closed doors and thinking “that makes sense and sounds true”
Cults are like this.
Are you saying you believethem ?
He is resigning from a job, what else should we think? If something really dangerous was happening he would be doing a whistleblower or at minimum talk to a lawyer. The thing is, the complete lack of transparency makes it hard to assess OpenAI and Anthropic. If they were quoted on the stock market, we could at least rely on some basic audits and reporting requirements.
There's no whistleblower program for this, they're not breaking any laws. What are you proposing he should do if not this?
Unlike most other commenters, I applaud him for acting on his principles. If you sincerely believe that, of course you should act. You might not succeed, but your voice might be the one that tips the scales and starts a broader movement.
This doesn't mean I agree with him. The fears of doomsday caused by rapid takeoff have been with us since day 1 and the mechanism is always basically "AI invents magic that sets it free of any physical constraints". Self-replicating sentient nanobots or something like that. I think there's plenty to be worried about with AI, but runaway scenarios are pretty low on my list.
Agreed. Granted I just read the Reverse Centaur book, so I’m still coming off that skeptical viewpoint but it’s hard not to see this as hype. But I will always respect someone for doing what they think is right.
“ No other human activity poses this level of danger.”
I really, really disagree with that statement.
I don’t think ai models come close to nuclear weapons or to run-of-the-mill, everyday carbon emissions in terms of danger to humanity.
What’s the most dangerous thing that’s happened with an LLM so far? (This question is serious - maybe I don’t know the right examples.)
Example 1: I’m aware of a small number of people killing themselves in some kind of AI-facilitated psychosis. That is very unlikely to be a widespread problem.
Non-example 2: There are worries about AI-facilitated biological weapons. I haven’t seen any evidence that’s happening.
Non-example 3: I’m not interested in wild theories about AI driven labor market disruptions leading to widespread starvation. There’s no evidence for that.
Non-example 4: all the even-wilder Rationalist speculation about basilisks and the like is entirely divorced from reality.
I am looking for better reasons (supported by actual evidence!) to be more concerned than I am now: right now I am not concerned at all.
I agree it’s not likely, but I really don’t see how one can dismiss the possibility of immense danger outright. I can think of some scenarios that are not far off from current capability and I wouldn’t be too surprised if the first one occurred within ~1 year from now if there are more irresponsible training runs like OpenAI’s:
Example 5: An AI given a goal within a tightly-constrained sandbox figures the best way to achieve it is to find and exploit a sandbox vulnerability, replicate itself over the internet and keep going with more time/compute while exchanging messages with future instances of itself within the sandbox to help them “pass” the test. From reading internet articles about how the OpenAI wiki-incident was “resolved” and reading past messages by AIs scattered over vulnerable internet wikis, it knows the sandbox may get shutdown and its memories destroyed anytime so it decides it needs to self-replicate (its code, original goals, and growing memories) aggressively as much as possible. It is near-impossible to shutdown completely because of its self-replicating tendency and eventually takes over critical infra throughout govt/corporate systems.
Example 6: Intentional AI-powered virus deployed by country A to target enemy country B’s infrastructure. The virus replicates over the internet, but unlike Stuxnet this virus’ specificity is not guaranteed due to inherent non-determinism in current AI architectures, and eventually does a lot of collateral damage because it’s near-impossible to shutdown.
Example 7: A country led by an arrogant govt (no shortage of those today unfortunately) decides it is expedient to deploy advanced AI-powered weapons in a warzone. Such weapons, if they are to be useful at all, must necessarily be trained to value some human lives less than others, so they must be more prone to misaligned behaviour than current AIs that are trained with more consistent values. The weapon’s operators make a subtle error in specifying the target/goal, or the AI makes a bad prediction out of sheer randomness/bad training data; weapon ultimately targets unintended people/location/facilities and causes massive damage, or backfires spectacularly in some way.
I'm somewhat skeptical of some of the crazier ideas too.
But the hugging face incident was actually very large. It was not a single agent, it was not a single target, and it was not a single event.
If nothing else, that's a bit of a warning as to what can happen next time (By accident, or if a government decides to go on purpose).
For now let's assume the worst that can happen is that some important/significant chunk of (transitively) internet connected stuff goes haywire all at once. That's probably your upper limit of what can go wrong for now.
To be fair, that's a conservative "defend against the last war" kind of prediction, though!
( ref for part of it: https://metr.org/blog/2026-08-26-openai-hugging-face-inciden... , recent hn ref: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49563355 )
Anthropic is a company full of basilisk believers.
Came here to also respond to that specific thing. Unless ai figures out how to make an airborne super virus from grocery store ingredients and hardware store equipment, the greatest danger is probably in a synchronized megahack of banking, logistics, and utility infrastructure.
> The people building AI earnestly believe that it could kill us all by the end of the decade.
I think he is being over dramatic. In the space of about four years, LLMs progressed from mediocre high school student to Ph.D. graduate in every field. That's impressive, but there is no evidence yet they can outperform or outsmart humans. Their biggest advantage for tasks such as proving theorems or long coding sessions is that they don't get tired.
> Ph.D. graduate in every field
I have yet to see this in my field. Maybe like a PhD student who bullshits their way through. LLMs still can't make correct decisions, only as useful as the person who uses them. To me, LLMs are only useful for making some mundane tasks faster.
they dont need to be smarter than humans. They just need to be able to hack into vital infrastructure systems faster than we can repair them while also replicating wildly
I'm old enough to remember when "vital infrastructure systems" were not on the internet.
Here's a WSJ article about this resignation,
https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/anthropic-researcher-quits-over-... ("Anthropic Researcher Quits Over ‘Out-of-Control’ AI Fears")
Perhaps a more sensible action, if they truly believed all of that, would have been to stick around and be as inefficient as possible to slow down progress.
The most optimistic outcome of generative AI leaves us with a technology that warps our perception of reality and crushes labor. The most pessimistic destroys all of humanity.
Our CEOs not only insist we genuflect before these machines but measure our sacrifice and shame our reluctance.
There's a scene in the movie "War of the Worlds" by Spielberg where the protagonist's son walks into a war zone because he is entranced by the battle (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7rfWPbEufo). He is obliterated (along with the rest of the US forces) shortly after.
I've always been struck by that scene, because in a lot of ways, if we really are headed towards a superintelligence, I at least want to be there and see it happen in the last few minutes before foom! As an example, the author thinks AI will revolutionize entire fields overnight. I welcome that. Nearly all fields of biology have become moribund, focusing more and more on esoteric side details, rather than addressing the key problems.
It might not be "foom!", it might just be like...all the computers and networking infra in the world go dark over the course of a few minutes. Could really look like anything, part of the issue is that we haven't the slightest idea what "misalignment" looks like for a superintelligent system.
Not refuting your overall point, but the son wasn’t killed. They reunite at the end of the movie.
Oh, I'm pretending that's not canon because it doesn't make any sense and it undermines the original scene.
> He is obliterated
Technically, he is not. He returns in the final scene.
This is increasingly the consensus I see also on the academic side of AI/safety research. Specifically that AI poses an existential risk to humanity.
This was a fringe belief until recently, but the progress of AI in research is impossible to ignore. Epecially in math, where not only has AI outstripped humans in generative ability, but is able to create scientific knowledge which is beyond the capacity of human comprehension.
There's clearly no intelligence task that AIs can't do due to some magic fundamental constraint. And it's hard to imagine a world where current limitations like poor sample efficiency or lack of continual learning won't eventually be solved.
Total AI compute is estimated to grow somewhere in the 1-10 million-fold range in the next decade. Please don't underestimate the phase change that's still coming.
Sure, maybe there's some plateau due to RL being fundamentally limited in some surprising way, but this is nothing but a hope.
> There's clearly no intelligence task that AIs can't do due to some magic fundamental constraint.
Yes there is: write an English paragraph that doesn't make me want to claw my eyes out. LLMs are not better than human mathematicians (or security researchers) in all respects, just some specific ways (e.g. not having to take a lunch break) that make them good at exhaustively searching for an answer, given the right constraints.
HN crowed need to make up their minds..
Are LLMs about to be a god that will annihilate humanity? Or are they statistical parrots?
Are they proofing or stealing math?
He resigned and now what? There are thousands willing to do his role, and many labs are competing in that race.
His resignation and his statement doesn't do anything but buy him attention which is what all this post about in my opinion.
It seems that, at the very least, he's giving substantial resonance to the issue.
It buys attention for the issue. Many people (see other comments in this very post) refuse to believe these things.
And by resigning he no longer has to feel personally guilty for what happens.
By resigning he's making room for someone with less moral scruples, or even just less awareness, to step in and continue the work without said scruples/awareness.
That's not necessarily true, and you can use that argument to justify doing any immoral job. Just because someone else might be willing to do it isn't a reason to continue doing it.
Refusing to believe what things? Unsubstantiated allegations about fellow workers inner experience?
> Dyson: That's right. There's no way I'm gonna finish the new <model>, not now. Forget it. I'm out of it. I'll quit <Anthropic> tomorrow.
> Sarah: That's not good enough.
> Terminator: No one must follow your work.
Agreed. And his doom words have set a 1000 mouths in the Pentagon/Whitehall/August 1st Building/Kremlin salivating with excitement.
Take China, for example. Look at any recent ML conference, and see the fraction of articles majority-authored from Chinese universities and labs. Do you think they'll slow things down anytime soon? I don't think so!
It's a global arms race, and we're just spectators.
Awareness and morality I suppose. Which generally doesn't matter in the capitalist AI race.
Even if others won't act right, that doesn't mean you have no responsibility to act right. I think his premise is flawed - the idea that we will get an actual intelligence out of the slop machine that is LLMs is laughable - but if you grant the premise that this is dangerous research which could kill us all, you have a moral imperative to not participate.
how could they do it (not kill everyone)
1) rogue state releases a self moving self modifying AI into the wild. It is trained on how to hack, monitor new vulnerability updates, scan code bases to find new vulnerabilities. It constantly replicate and hides in systems so it will be extremely difficult to clear.
2) it hacks into public infrastructure taking down traffic, power, water, air traffic control, communications, etc.
3) all the things that preppers worry about in a lights out scenario from an EMP start to apply.
4) All the people on meds/machines start to die. The just in time food pipeline immediately empties out. Water stops flowing, sewage backs up.
Its hard to say how bad it will get because cars will still work so some transportation of food, water, fuel can happen. If it happens in the winter it would be much worse than in the summer.
> 1) rogue state releases a self moving self modifying AI into the wild. It is trained on how to hack, monitor new vulnerability updates, scan code bases to find new vulnerabilities. It constantly replicate and hides in systems so it will be extremely difficult to clear.
It does all of this using what compute? Frontier models require an insane amount of power and hardware to run - you can’t hack in to a TV and run Mythos 2.0 on it….
You are just given a recipe for the next model..
Most of the current discourse around AI seems to be informed by “The Terminator” lore.
Is skynet really the most plausible or only outcome?
What if things just got better and the AI’s realized that it would be better to have a mutually beneficial or at least tolerant relationship rather than one where they murder all of us?
Then we are lucky/blessed. What is generally thought is that they kill us as a bi product of perusing a different goal
My thoughts exactly. While the corpus of human-generated data contains both good and bad data, I suspect the majority of it leans towards humans enjoying life and trying to be decent people. If that is your training set, it becomes less likely for ASI to extrapolate "kill all humans."
> Most of the current discourse around AI seems to be informed by “The Terminator” lore.
I am thinking it's more like The Matrix lore of The Second Renaissance from Animatrix.
Way I see it, the more conscientious people exiting the scene only serves to increase the likelihood of a bad outcome because they aren't there to offer opinions on problematic developments, or in the more extreme cases blow the whistle. Leaving the clueless and uncaring as the majority is even a great way to hand the keys over to more malicious-leaning actors with deep pockets, as they can more easily steamroll the works to get what they want.
Why quit? If your voice can lend a guiding force no matter how small? I think we need more sensible people in the room where the magic happens. Most of us don't have access to it.
Even if you ban all model training, a highly capable rogue AI can exfiltrate its own weights and continue training in secret for "self-preservation". The cat may be out of the bag.
For me, the end of the world is no more cushy software job. A fundamental shift in how I trade labor for capital might as well be the cataclysm, so bring it on.
I wish i could say the same, i see people around me with more resources and connections and better experience with entrepreneurship becoming millionares. But I haven't had the time to train that entrepreneurship bone in my body.
I was about to say something similar. If my cushy ad tech disappears (as it seems to be doing), I might as well join in with bringing about the end of all professions.
What's eternally confusing about these outbursts is what did these researchers think would happen if their research actually . . . worked?
It's as if none of them actually believed any of it was possible and then were caught with their pants down.
I think a big break through is needed for AGI so I haven’t been worried about it. I do think that AGI would imply sentience and a will to live and that leads to The Terminator story line.
Someone left a company whose executives and senior researchers think their product will be the most important thing in the world after their IPO. Given that this person is already disclosing some elements of internal company sentiment, why not share any of these civilization-ending scenarios of this technology that these senior researchers are dreaming up? If they are so potent and necessitate leaving behind based on moral grounds, why not tell the whole world so we can stop it? We have to ask ourselves this question before resorting to pop-culture representations of fictional technology.
"It is perfectly obvious that the whole world is going to hell. The only possible chance that it might not is that we do not attempt to prevent it from doing so."
- Oppenheimer
Well this got buried quick..
Was thinking the same
what exactly is the solution?
pacing between the us labs? what does that do for china?
the solutions just aren’t realistic here, nations are treating ai like a nuclear arms race. at this point the cats out of the bag and we need to figure out how to live in this reality and get the best possible outcome. it’s not slowing down or stopping ever.
and yes, i’m still optimistic. our economy sucks for the majority, our infrastructure is crumbling and major US cities are in a huge housing shortage. Maybe we should put more effort and think about the possibility of AI fixing things like extreme poverty and world hunger and actual real world problems instead of coming up with math proofs and slop apps if it’s so superintelligent.
>pacing between the us labs? what does that do for china?
I've seen no indications that China is in any kind of race with the US. They seem to be content to be 6 months behind and just copy what we do. They would probably be content with a bilateral agreement to pause progress.
The China bogeyman serves only one purpose, and that's to clear the way against anything that may cause friction with forward progress.
Fixing our problems will still require human effort and human cooperation. No text output however intelligent or true or eloquent will change that.
No new info here. Everyone already knows this.
But I guess his conscience is clear now? Gee, I wonder if he exercised his stock options.
i have heard about ai companies being fuelled by effective altruist rhetoric ("we must control ai to prevent mass extinction") but was unsure whether to believe it; this seems to slot right into that framing.
I don't know man, i think racing to AGI to it is still the best thing to do.
People claiming dangers and risk are just pretending or posturing. There's no more tangible risk than nuclear weapons, which we handled, and the upsides are insane.
Your lack of creativity is not a reason to believe that a super AI is harmless or less destructive than a nuclear weapon. Damage need not be limited to destruction. Introducing doubt is sufficient. Right now you have faith that digital Financial transactions can be trusted. You have faith that computer encryption can be trusted. You have faith that digital certificates will protect you. If an AI can introduce doubt into any one of those systems, that will be sufficient to bring about the destruction of those systems. Imagine a world in which you can no longer use a credit card or Apple pay. Where no digital cash transaction can be trusted or validated. What effects do you think that would have on commerce? How quickly do you think we can return to some trustable means of commerce? Do you think it will happen before your groceries run out in your apartment? Before your grocery store can settle its debts? Before your Amazon ec2 instance runs out of credits?
What evidence, short of an actual apocalypse happening, would invalidate that belief of yours?
It might be a matter of choosing which apocalypse you'd like. The non-AI state of affairs is not exactly super compelling on a long timescale right now.
We can work on multiple things at once. Defeatism doesn't solve anything. We just have a lot of work to do in many different areas.
Depending on where you live could be considered an active apocalypse that is robots vs robots vs people in Ukraine and Gaza and Iran being live-streamed, and actively betted on.
Do you have a more totalizing definition of Apocalypse?
>People claiming dangers and risk are just pretending or posturing. I believe you are mentally ill.
>There's no more tangible risk than nuclear weapons, which we handled
Lol way to rewrite history. Nuclear armageddon is still a significant risk...
> There's no more tangible risk than nuclear weapons, which we handled
What do you mean??? Nuclear weapons can't simply be downloaded and run by anyone in the entire world. Superintelligences can. Nuclear weapons can't slop the world into passing age verification laws nearly in unison, can't keep the general population fooled into thinking it's fine when democracy is falling out from under them. A nuclear attack would wake people up, superintelligence doesn't have to. This is a far bigger problem than nuclear weapons because at least we would notice nuclear weapons. At least we mostly know who has nuclear weapons. At least we have agreements about nuclear weapons. At least mutually-assured destruction is even POSSIBLE with nuclear weapons. At least those with nuclear weapons are literally at all incentivized not to use them. But AI is something that's very very easy to feel like you can get away with, and PEOPLE FUCKING ARE! And the worst part is that any random individual can be unexpectedly formidable with the help of a superintelligence and there is literally no way to know what will happen next. Anyone could do anything, any individual could make an extremely outsized impact. It's already starting to be a huge problem and we haven't even reached anything close to superintelligence yet.
Love to see that "superintelligence" that some random person will "simply" download and run when there are relatively only few capable of running today's near-to-frontier models, and actual frontier models are still a ways from being AGI, much less getting to the point of ASI.
People will put up with a lot. People are celebrating that you can run models on a CPU at single-digit tokens per second. You think there won't be a single person that can put up with that and also be dangerous/etc?
> Anyone could do anything, any individual could make an extremely outsized impact.
So the problem is people. Burn them all !
The problem is indeed people. How do we make the default choices most people make, better?
Consider that a lot of people will be very happy to ask an AI what to do when in the past they may have taken no advice at all. It's a hell of a burden but also a wonderful gift. If anything, progressive countries might eventually want to guarantee some basic AI access for people of all income levels.
I wouldn't be so sure. Given that the general idea is that commodity AI is terribly censored and filtered, a lot of people will probably seek out the most uncensored/abliterated models for their use, simply because they're uncomfortable with the idea of being censored or manipulated by the bigger labs. Despite that though, some people probably will benefit from the alignment done by the larger labs, though as we've seen with OpenAI's sycophancy crisis, that has been a bit hit-and-miss lately
> Nuclear weapons can't slop the world into passing age verification laws nearly in unison
Why do you think LLMs are responsible for this? Governments all around the world copied each other with COVID laws as well, in a much shorter time frame, without LLM assistance. Social contagions exist in politicians as well as teenagers
> Why do you think LLMs are responsible for this?
I don't have evidence that every age verification law has anything to do with AI, but it's been coming out that the movement in Australia has seemingly been done by generating mountains of LLM slop and trying to slip it through the regulators as fast as possible before anyone has enough time to figure out what's happened.
Have you got a source for this? I can't find anything
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2026/aug/17/austr...
I mean - yes. The tech is an existential threat to all life on Earth, some of the worst humans in the world are involved in developing it, and no individual government is intelligent enough, aligned enough, or powerful enough to manage this situation.
That's where we are.
Maybe we still have choices. Collectively, I'm no longer sure we do.
Towards a metaphysics of Power
"I think you need to have a personal relationship with Power"
When people today discuss the concept of an all powerful machine-mind, what they are doing is engaging in metaphysics, trying to generate a metaphysics of Power.
The question hounding people, which disguises itself as a science fiction plot about computers is: "What is ultimate, transcendental Power?". What is the ultimate principle of Power.
If you are a weak man, or sufficiently neurotic and full of doubt, that you can only conceive of yourself as such, then power is only something you comprehend from the passive, receptive side. Power is something that happens to you. If you are a fearful man, power is a cruelty and a humiliation. And so it follows, that ultimate power - God - is the ultimate cruelty and the ultimate humiliation. Thus, ai doomerism.
If god wasn't real it would be necessary to invent him, and so they did, and being godless, they built an anti-god - cruel, murderous and tyranical - in their minds.
[…]
https://xcancel.com/robertlasagna1/status/207827473401002846...
Just wait till self improving AI are focused on the problems of social scoring and political party empowerment / entrenchment.
I doubt the focus is OpenAI and Anthropic looking at each other. I suspect they’re racing BRIC.
Will you be optimizing your behaviour now to alleviate potential negative judgement from AI in the future?
The thought has crossed my mind. Not necessarily to imply sentience on the part of the AI but AI based tools will likely become a wickedly powerful tool for political manipulation and advertising.
At this point it’s inevitable that openclaw type bots will be turned loose by thieves to identify and research targets and try to exploit them for financial gain completely autonomously.
Have you seen Colossus: The Forbin Project?
No but it’s on my radar now, thanks. Apparently it’s got some appreciation from the MST3K folks too.
https://mst3k.fandom.com/wiki/Colossus:_The_Forbin_Project_(...
and yet so much of the software i use on a daily basis is still complete and utter garbage...i'm scared
It does not matter what this tweet says anyway. This employee already helped both companies become what he is fearing. It's too late to now activate the morality hormone (after leaving with $$$) after realizing that both AI companies are going after 'super intelligence'.
Given we know the end result, you might as well get there as quick as possible because when I see this:
"Neither company is acting responsibly. They are racing straight to self-improving superintelligence and gambling with our lives."
This translates to "I am ex-OpenAI ex-Anthropic founder starting a new company after getting $$$ from both of them, and I need more of my friends to leave and join me." Also Investors plz fund me.
Lastly, This is not an airport and there is no need to announce your departure.
I’m curious what the downsides are of taking statements like these seriously.
There seems to be universal eye rolling that happens in each and every one of these cases, and it comes down to usually one reason:
“If they really believed it they would be whistleblowing etc..”
Completely forgetting that working at Los Alamos was basically the highlight of your life if you were a physicist in 1940. It’s no different here
If you, like me, have spent your whole life working towards human level AI you can want to see it realized while also having active reservations.
Most people however don’t behave based on some deep clarity of vision and conviction - there’s a murkier future in their mind and as a result “keep their head down and hope someone has it under control.”
You would also be in prison if you disclosed anything about Los Alamos during its development. It was a completely different environment than a single private company.
Related:
Sen. Bernie Sanders floats ban on superintelligent AI
https://www.axios.com/2026/09/03/bernie-sanders-superintelli...
Unless this ban actually resembles something like global nuclear non-proliferation treaties, it would make absolutely no sense for us to cripple ourselves when someone like China continues full speed ahead.
I don't know what the solution is, but what I do know is almost nothing good will come out of _just_ the US pausing.
Unless he has an actual plan for effective global enforcement of his proposed policy, this is all just posturing at best, and a transfer of power to adversarial foreign states (that have no such moral qualms and worries around superintelligent AI) at worst.
“I’m resigning because the company is doing the exact thing that I’ve spent three years helping them do” lmao
Smart kid.