There is still no widespread charging infra. Oh sure, there are chargers. If you're lucky and your town is on a state highway there might be one or two chargers in the entire town — their purpose being so visitors don't become stranded.
Outside of cities, they are not there in sufficient quantity for widespread adoption.
The apartment problem has not been solved either, and people do not have the time in their lives to dedicate to charging at a shared public charger.
Europe still loves its compact manual transmission cars; but what we may see is a transition away from diesel to petrol vehicles strictly for cost reasons.
I’m not claiming this to be an entirely solved issue, but the situations in which EVs make sense are already very broad and keep expanding. The city I live in has lantern chargers (admittedly not everywhere), some others are building them into curbs. Apartment parking spaces and garages are getting chargers installed. If you live rurally, chances are high you can install your own.
Strangely I’d expect urban centers with apartments and street parking to be the problem.
In the US Electric vehicles are easier for those who can park a car next to an outlet they own. We have a lot more suburbia with people owning their own charging.
that's fine; the issues that electric cars are trying to solve in congested urban areas aren't as prevalent in rural areas, where diesel engines are still going to be doing most of the work anyway
>The apartment problem has not been solved either, and people do not have the time in their lives to dedicate to charging at a shared public charger.
this looms much larger in the imagination than in reality given that the average urban European drives about 9-15km per day. If you're living in a space where charging space is in short supply you in all likelihood drive so little you maybe need to charge 3 times per month.
In Netherlands you could also get paid for charging your car. There is such thing called ERE Certificates - emission reduction unit certificate is generated by offsetting emissions. Pollutters have to buy them to offset the harm. It's up to 0.1 euro per KWh (electricity costs 0.28 euro per KWh), depending on the demand.
The Jeffrey Epstein Memorial War is the worst thing to ever hit the American auto industry and workers, since that industry is so far behind on EV adoption they'll never catch up to the Asian manufacturers.
It'll kill them, the Big 3 should be losing their everloving minds over it.
Who would have imagined that Vladimir Putin would oversee a sizeable NATO expansion, the reduction of European gas usage, and, in combination with Trump, the increased adoption of electric vehicles?
History may look back on them as having done rather a lot to move the world off of fossil fuels.
Gasoline would be $0.99 if EV platforms (build your own whatever) and low cost China Auto imports were available in America. But Elon has a hold on congress.
Being blunt, I don't think Elon is the only factor in that.
That protectionism is just as much in place for the sake of GM, Ford, and Stellantis, and their suppliers. In 2008 it was estimated that if the big three (Well, back then it was Chrysler instead of Stellantis) went under without a bailout [0], that up to 3 million jobs across the country were at risk. Michigan alone would have possibly lost over 8% of it's jobs.
We do see similar-ish protectionism in other countries as well, FWIW. Part of Toyota and Honda's lack of aggressive shifting to EVs is that a 'full shift' would remove millions of jobs from the workforce. Toyota has even published what could be considered propaganda in their home country about it [1].
It's an elephant in the room. European automakers are all struggling with it too, with various degrees of failure.
If there is one irony I will point out, it's that if they had all been more aggressive about hybrid technology for at least the last 15 years, they could have at least kicked the can down the road. Which honestly may have helped; part of the problem is that when things like engine or transmission plants are built, the amortization of the costs between the factory itself, training workers, expected retooling etc is measured and planned in the 10-30ish year range. The complacency means they have a bunch of assets that would be unpaletable write-offs.
Cause, Let's face it; every carmaker could have at least been doing even basic hybrids for most of their non-truck models for over a decade, which aren't perfect but would have raised the bar for MPG and improved the economies of scale faster [2].
[0] - For whatever it's worth, Ford at the time did not need a bailout, but did ask for a line of credit that it never had to use in case the others totally collapsed, because if that had happened it would have been a huge impact to their suppliers.
[2] - I'll point to the Ford Maverick, which initially launched at ~22K and got 35-40MPG in base configuration despite being a very large compact truck. IMO if the automakers got serious about the tech in 2010, we could have seen something at that price point at least 5 years sooner.
Those would hurt legacy auto much more than Tesla, which is why the last admin who had a lot of legacy auto union donations banned them. If anything Tesla will benefit from the charging infrastructure created due to a lot more EVs on the roads.
EVs plus charging with a grid powered by solar when the sun shines bright at midday is one of the most powerful forces in averting anthropogenic climate change.
I would say removing the need for personal vehicles were possible would be a much more powerful force, but yours is much more practical at least short term (decade's time frame).
I mean, I feel like even if petrol wasn't as expensive as it is, the sales would be booming anyway, maybe a sliver slower - for the simple reason that affordable EVs are now here and they are pretty damn good now. After years and years of lamenting "where are the EVs for your average Joe Smith" - they are now here. Funnily enough, they aren't made by Volkswagen or Peugeot, but they are here anyway.
And Europe's cheapest new car - Dacia Spring - is an EV.
You're delusional if you think an EV is affordable for an average person. The average person barely makes enough to cover rent, food, bills and save a little money - 15-30k EUR for an entry level EV is out of question. Meanwhile most people can afford to get a late 90s/early 00s used car that will actually get the job done.
In the uk, there can be good deals on used EVs. My Hyundai Kona EV (64kWh) (2022 plate) was £18K for a 18 month old car with 9K miles on the clock and lots of options. It does about 280 miles on a charge and I do have the advantage of cheap home charging (8p per kWh) so it’s under a £5 for my weekly commute.
A big step up from my old Ford fiesta, just look for the deals
Average fleet age in EU looks to be around 13 years so when you say "most people", you're likely off by 10-15 years in terms of second hand purchases. Greece might be the only EU country that gets close to what you said. I get the point about affordability but it's good to base discussion on facts.
Also, EVs have been around for quite a few years now so it is no longer necessary to buy them new.
The only EVs that offer this range are going to be very expensive. They'll either be from pricey companies like Lucid or they'll be extended-range vehicles from other makers. Are there any under $50k? Most are probably over $60k, and some will be double that.
It's better for the body to keep driving sessions to 3-4 hours max before you get up walk around and charge a bit. 330 mile range is more than enough. If you only use 60% of the battery to maximize its lifespan you can drive for 3.5 hours roughly before you deplete a battery from 80% -> 20%.
Not in rural Europe it isn't.
There is still no widespread charging infra. Oh sure, there are chargers. If you're lucky and your town is on a state highway there might be one or two chargers in the entire town — their purpose being so visitors don't become stranded.
Outside of cities, they are not there in sufficient quantity for widespread adoption.
The apartment problem has not been solved either, and people do not have the time in their lives to dedicate to charging at a shared public charger.
Europe still loves its compact manual transmission cars; but what we may see is a transition away from diesel to petrol vehicles strictly for cost reasons.
I’m not claiming this to be an entirely solved issue, but the situations in which EVs make sense are already very broad and keep expanding. The city I live in has lantern chargers (admittedly not everywhere), some others are building them into curbs. Apartment parking spaces and garages are getting chargers installed. If you live rurally, chances are high you can install your own.
> Not in rural Europe it isn't. > There is still no widespread charging infra.
You can charge your car at home on a simple reinforced 230V socket. Even city car which should be bad for this purpose have at least 200km of range.
I charge mine on a 120 V 20 amp outlet in the US that was already in my garage… And it works fine for me
This was probably what people used to say about petrol stations.
And it would have been a legitimate issue at that time too.
Strangely I’d expect urban centers with apartments and street parking to be the problem.
In the US Electric vehicles are easier for those who can park a car next to an outlet they own. We have a lot more suburbia with people owning their own charging.
that's fine; the issues that electric cars are trying to solve in congested urban areas aren't as prevalent in rural areas, where diesel engines are still going to be doing most of the work anyway
I would expect that in rural areas, it's much easier to simply charge at home. It's harder when you live in an apartment and park on the street.
That's fair; but articles like this tend to view reality as black or white, rather than the grey area it is.
>The apartment problem has not been solved either, and people do not have the time in their lives to dedicate to charging at a shared public charger.
this looms much larger in the imagination than in reality given that the average urban European drives about 9-15km per day. If you're living in a space where charging space is in short supply you in all likelihood drive so little you maybe need to charge 3 times per month.
And this doesn’t even have to mean having to idly wait 20-30 minutes at a fast charger: Lots of shopping and work places have chargers now.
In Netherlands you could also get paid for charging your car. There is such thing called ERE Certificates - emission reduction unit certificate is generated by offsetting emissions. Pollutters have to buy them to offset the harm. It's up to 0.1 euro per KWh (electricity costs 0.28 euro per KWh), depending on the demand.
The Jeffrey Epstein Memorial War is the worst thing to ever hit the American auto industry and workers, since that industry is so far behind on EV adoption they'll never catch up to the Asian manufacturers.
It'll kill them, the Big 3 should be losing their everloving minds over it.
Who would have imagined that Vladimir Putin would oversee a sizeable NATO expansion, the reduction of European gas usage, and, in combination with Trump, the increased adoption of electric vehicles?
History may look back on them as having done rather a lot to move the world off of fossil fuels.
Just like how Genghis Khan was responsible for a brief global cooling.
Piggybacking, talking about me!now but the last 5 years have shown me i know nothing
Gasoline would be $0.99 if EV platforms (build your own whatever) and low cost China Auto imports were available in America. But Elon has a hold on congress.
Being blunt, I don't think Elon is the only factor in that.
That protectionism is just as much in place for the sake of GM, Ford, and Stellantis, and their suppliers. In 2008 it was estimated that if the big three (Well, back then it was Chrysler instead of Stellantis) went under without a bailout [0], that up to 3 million jobs across the country were at risk. Michigan alone would have possibly lost over 8% of it's jobs.
We do see similar-ish protectionism in other countries as well, FWIW. Part of Toyota and Honda's lack of aggressive shifting to EVs is that a 'full shift' would remove millions of jobs from the workforce. Toyota has even published what could be considered propaganda in their home country about it [1].
It's an elephant in the room. European automakers are all struggling with it too, with various degrees of failure.
If there is one irony I will point out, it's that if they had all been more aggressive about hybrid technology for at least the last 15 years, they could have at least kicked the can down the road. Which honestly may have helped; part of the problem is that when things like engine or transmission plants are built, the amortization of the costs between the factory itself, training workers, expected retooling etc is measured and planned in the 10-30ish year range. The complacency means they have a bunch of assets that would be unpaletable write-offs.
Cause, Let's face it; every carmaker could have at least been doing even basic hybrids for most of their non-truck models for over a decade, which aren't perfect but would have raised the bar for MPG and improved the economies of scale faster [2].
[0] - For whatever it's worth, Ford at the time did not need a bailout, but did ask for a line of credit that it never had to use in case the others totally collapsed, because if that had happened it would have been a huge impact to their suppliers.
[1] - https://electrek.co/2021/11/11/how-toyota-sneakily-spreads-a...
[2] - I'll point to the Ford Maverick, which initially launched at ~22K and got 35-40MPG in base configuration despite being a very large compact truck. IMO if the automakers got serious about the tech in 2010, we could have seen something at that price point at least 5 years sooner.
Those would hurt legacy auto much more than Tesla, which is why the last admin who had a lot of legacy auto union donations banned them. If anything Tesla will benefit from the charging infrastructure created due to a lot more EVs on the roads.
https://archive.is/dRArj
It's a shame the archive links don't display the graphs, Bloomberg's are usually quite informative.
https://htmlhoster.com/p/7WV9ZKCH/EV%20Sales%20Are%20Booming...
EVs plus charging with a grid powered by solar when the sun shines bright at midday is one of the most powerful forces in averting anthropogenic climate change.
I would say removing the need for personal vehicles were possible would be a much more powerful force, but yours is much more practical at least short term (decade's time frame).
I mean, I feel like even if petrol wasn't as expensive as it is, the sales would be booming anyway, maybe a sliver slower - for the simple reason that affordable EVs are now here and they are pretty damn good now. After years and years of lamenting "where are the EVs for your average Joe Smith" - they are now here. Funnily enough, they aren't made by Volkswagen or Peugeot, but they are here anyway. And Europe's cheapest new car - Dacia Spring - is an EV.
You're delusional if you think an EV is affordable for an average person. The average person barely makes enough to cover rent, food, bills and save a little money - 15-30k EUR for an entry level EV is out of question. Meanwhile most people can afford to get a late 90s/early 00s used car that will actually get the job done.
In the uk, there can be good deals on used EVs. My Hyundai Kona EV (64kWh) (2022 plate) was £18K for a 18 month old car with 9K miles on the clock and lots of options. It does about 280 miles on a charge and I do have the advantage of cheap home charging (8p per kWh) so it’s under a £5 for my weekly commute.
A big step up from my old Ford fiesta, just look for the deals
Average fleet age in EU looks to be around 13 years so when you say "most people", you're likely off by 10-15 years in terms of second hand purchases. Greece might be the only EU country that gets close to what you said. I get the point about affordability but it's good to base discussion on facts.
Also, EVs have been around for quite a few years now so it is no longer necessary to buy them new.
https://www.acea.auto/publication/report-vehicles-on-europea...
Im on the verge of switching from PHEV to full EV. I just need a reasonably affordable EV with 450+ mile of range.
Im curious - why do you need 450 miles of range?
My tesla goes 3 hours at 80mph. I can get to any charger I need. There are considerably more than I ever imagined.
The only EVs that offer this range are going to be very expensive. They'll either be from pricey companies like Lucid or they'll be extended-range vehicles from other makers. Are there any under $50k? Most are probably over $60k, and some will be double that.
The Chevy Silverado EV will go 492 miles.
With a 30 year mortgage the $56K base model payments could be doable.
Why do you need that much range and what are you looking at that is anywhere near that?
It's better for the body to keep driving sessions to 3-4 hours max before you get up walk around and charge a bit. 330 mile range is more than enough. If you only use 60% of the battery to maximize its lifespan you can drive for 3.5 hours roughly before you deplete a battery from 80% -> 20%.