I am a bit surprised to hear that the U.S. government can still order around Dutch police like a butler. Maybe the Dutch regime is struggling to actually effectively decouple themselves from the U.S.? Would love to hear an expert weigh in.
They can't and that's not what happened. The Dutch government believes Antifa to commit illegal acts. Enough for them to at least consider classifying them a terrorist organization about a year ago.
Replying to myself: my current theory is that the Dutch regime weighed the risk of political potential blowback from the U.S. (specifically executive office), and did not consider it worthwhile protecting the final servers of a group that is winding down anyways.
Again, would love to hear a domain expert weigh in! Also because I walk past this data center every day :)
The Netherlands is a pretty pragmatic place, at the end of the day. America is a massive trading, investment [1] and security partner to it. (Going back to our founding.)
And Dutch voters’ views on policing are currently tending right: “84 percent of Dutch adults believe police struggle to maintain authority. Ten percent disagreed, and 6 percent said they had no opinion” [2].
The Dutch are with 17 million people and all our stuff runs on MS. Even a judge from the international criminal court had an Amazon Echo in her living room. We, on average, don't know and don't care.
All this sovereignty stuff is still quite contained in our nerd bubble I feel.
ASML weighs in on this, they get a key component from the US (a lens iirc). There is no real possibility of complete decoupling in the modern world. You would have to go back to a much less modern world for true decoupling.
Your comparison doesn't hold. ASML depends on components owned by the US, but US companies also depend on components created only by ASML. It is a mutual dependency. It doesn't imply that Dutch police should go around doing the bidding of a foreign government. This is much worse and should be protested.
I agree and find my country's behavior unacceptable as well. Some of us are doing what we can under the current regime, but it is not easy and comes with real risk. America is not in a good place right now.
The EUV lenses are made by Zeiss in Germany AFAIK.
But to even suggest that ASML is dictating US-Dutch diplomacy, two NATO members with similar values and goals, is hilariously off.
I understand that there are complex global supply chains, but my expectation is A) that these are somewhat mutually beneficial relations and B) that their day-to-day operation is somewhat confined to non-governmental spheres.
From my reading of the article, it seems like the U.S. was able to order around the police in Amsterdam without going through a system to check if the Dutch government approves of the action. That’s mostly my confusion.
Idk about what the actual objective comparison is, but around me (Capitol Hill, Seattle) many left anarchist types definitely threaten violence. I’m not sure they’d actually follow through and a lot of it is communist revolution larping, but there is probably something to it. Or at the very least they’d do things like hide violent fugitives.
Someone left-aligned (and acting alone, not an official terrorist group) assassinated Charlie Kirk in the US.
A group of left aligned people got in over their heads on a protest action and one shot a police officer.
My too-online left friends worship Luigi IRL, one even recently got a tattoo meant to reference him.
I’m not convinced there are any real terrorist groups operating the way e.g the Weathermen were back in the 70s. But there is some kind of violent left tendency rising, and we could easily be headed that way.
I don't see how there's any basis for concluding that Tyler Robinson is "left-aligned." He seems pretty apolitical. He did it to defend his girlfriend's honor, or something. If you think his dating preferences make him "left-aligned," that seems more revealing of your own leanings
The politics are not super clear, if there are any. I think Kirk‘s assassination is much more akin to John Lennon’s murder. It seems nuts to assassinate someone so political for apolitical reasons, but that is exactly what happened to Lennon.
Figure 4 shows left-wing political violence completely flat with a 1 year decrease in right wing violence as the basis for your “flipped” narrative. Table 1 shows the last 10 years highlighting 152 right wing attacks causing 112 deaths and 35 left wing attacks causing 13 deaths…
You quoted the "trend has recently flipped" but the graph showing the total numbers show right wing violence is still by far the majority, and the 2025 datapoint was incomplete.
> My too-online left friends worship Luigi IRL
And? When you see systemic/societal killing regularly, are we supposed to clutch pearls when one very very rich and powerful guy dies?
> got in over their heads on a protest action
Yeah, two small groups that weren't connected were all made an example of.
> Someone left-aligned
Total conjecture.
The weather underground accidentally killed more of their own than they did in their actual bombings. They went after property. Right wing terror goes after soft targets like kids and worshipers.
Does any of this actually address what I said that rightwing terror groups are going completely unbothered?
There is a lot of misinformation in this post that is parroted from right-wing propaganda channels. I know we are not supposed to engage in ideological battles here on HN, so I am not going to try to convince anyone here. Simply try to fact check any of the individual claims here by a simple web-search, and the whole argument will fall apart on factual ground very quickly.
It shouldn't revolve around Zionism, but more and more it's clear that if you oppose Israeli military offensives as a Westerner, the powers that be will brand you a terrorist and respond as if you were a threat.
A/I is not a terrorist organization, and they only got branded as such when operatives started taking direct action in response to the Genocide that Israel is committing presently. The cited "terrorist" actions so far have been spray-painting military property with anti-genocide messages: Criminal vandalism, sure. But absolutely not terrorism!
That would be like when Google refused to take on military contracts with the US, but then they bent over backwards to do them with Israel. This is also when they changed a ton of internal policies to control employee expression, which started even before those interns broke into TK's office.
But honestly, the A/I situation doesn't look like that. Trump administration has been going after regular Antifa orgs for a long time.
> how American authorities did not do much about "antifa"
What are you talking about, antifa has been a Trump bugbear since his first term.
A/I has been getting its shit seized since 2004 [1]. It started working with GazaWeb around 2024 [2]. It looks more like its PKK work got it in trouble [3].
Given the number of anti-left and anti-European power centers in the White House right now, it’s silly to jump to one’s pet conclusion when it comes to any Europe policy.
This is a neo-nazi maxim. It sounds reasonable until you realize that the people who say this are hoping you'll arrive at an antisemitic answer. Yes, criticizing "jews" broadly is going to get you a negative reaction. No, that does not mean that "jews rule over you". You're not going to get a great response saying the n-word either, but that doesn't mean Black people are your oppressors.
Same kind of drivel as "there's nothing wrong with defending your own people", until you realize that "your own people" = "the racial majority" and "defending" = "defending against other races". Take a moment to think about what you're saying and why people say it. These aren't universal truths; it only takes a moment to find a counterexample that should prove to you that these aren't worthy of being guiding beliefs.
Anyone living by these kinds of figures of speech isn't a critical thinker, which is pretty much why they exist. Authoritarians benefit when you don't think too hard about how things work.
There's nowhere in the entire country you'd face legal consequences for criticizing Hamas. In the UK, maybe, depending how you do it (someone was arrested for posting "fuck Palestine and fuck Hamas").
Non-citizen students were also deported from the US for criticizing Israel. Courts later ruled this unconstitutional since the 1A still applies to them, but it was too late for those students.
> nowhere in the entire country you'd face legal consequences for criticizing Hamas
> Courts later ruled this unconstitutional
Those students faced practical consequences. There are plenty of places in America where expressing any doubts about the moral superiority of Palestinians over Israelis (note: I’m intentionally referring to the people) could get you isolated to the point of facing real consequences. Pretending this isn’t a polarizing debate across the political spectrum is a bit strange.
If you mean well, you should know that the specific term “Zionist occupied government” originated as part of an antisemitic conspiracy theory. To avoid confusion you should use different phrasing; something like “the government supports Israel” would express your meaning just as well.
Again, this phrasing was invented as part of an antisemitic conspiracy theory that has nothing to do with Netanyahu. I don’t intend to imply any antisemitic intent for someone who didn’t know this, as long as they recognize that they’re not trying to be antisemitic and choose one of the many alternative ways to say “I think my government is too friendly towards Israel” going forwards.
> assuming there are Zionists everywhere is borderline antisemitic
It’s more just basic conspiracy theorizing. Assuming there is a secret group in charge of world affairs is a lot more comforting than facing the reality that we’re careening towards political anarchy on multiple continents. I don’t think one need be anti-Semitic to subscribe to that system.
It’s 2026, every group is secretly in charge. The Russians, the deep state, the Indians. It’s a chaotic world and even the brightest among us are struggling to thread a coherent narrative about it. That leaves lots of room for the less bright to do their thing.
One of these days we as a species really need to learn that Zionism and Semitism are not the same Venn circle.
Not all Zionists are Semitic (or even Jewish) and not all Semites (or even Jews) are Zionists.
Now, it’s obviously extremely easy to conflate Zionism with Semitism, and vice versa, which is a trap both the actual antisemites and those most likely to point and yell “antisemite” seem wont to fall into.
Personally I’d call that borderline antisemitic, since in either case it’s conflating an ethno-nationalist political agenda with both an ethnicity and a nationality that may not subscribe to or support that political agenda at all.
The claim that Jews control or manipulate governments has been an antisemitic claim going back hundreds of years in multiple different variations. So, even if semetic does not equal Jew does not equal Zionist, any claim that one or the other controls a government requires some substance. Otherwise, it fits one of the most recognized template of antisemitic false claims.
The Israeli government does support Zionism and it does have quite a lot of influence with western governments. In the US, Israeli-tied special interest groups donate significant sums of money to our politicians who then vote in ways that benefit Israel. I don't think it's fair to say "Jews control the world" and I can certainly understand the sensitivity of that statement but it's not wrong to say that Israel has significant influence over the foreign policy of a world superpower.
Yeah, a lot of Jews oppose Zionism for religious reasons. It's not fair to lump them together like that.
The word antisemitism itself is pretty funny though, as a thought-terminating cliche.
Can you imagine if any time the news media criticized white people, I could get them cancelled, (or in some countries jailed), for their antiaryanism? Wouldn't that be silly?
Then again, maybe that comparison doesn't work. After all, to see Jews as your equals is antisemitic: https://archive.ph/InK8h
How much more on the nose can you be than being anti-antifascist? It is obvious the double negative cancels out.
To all the Americans who think authoritarianism is something that happens elsewhere and that they would've stood up and stopped it: What are you waiting for?
I am a bit surprised to hear that the U.S. government can still order around Dutch police like a butler. Maybe the Dutch regime is struggling to actually effectively decouple themselves from the U.S.? Would love to hear an expert weigh in.
They can't and that's not what happened. The Dutch government believes Antifa to commit illegal acts. Enough for them to at least consider classifying them a terrorist organization about a year ago.
Replying to myself: my current theory is that the Dutch regime weighed the risk of political potential blowback from the U.S. (specifically executive office), and did not consider it worthwhile protecting the final servers of a group that is winding down anyways.
Again, would love to hear a domain expert weigh in! Also because I walk past this data center every day :)
Big assumption the Dutch gov did not ask for something in exchange.
The Netherlands is a pretty pragmatic place, at the end of the day. America is a massive trading, investment [1] and security partner to it. (Going back to our founding.)
And Dutch voters’ views on policing are currently tending right: “84 percent of Dutch adults believe police struggle to maintain authority. Ten percent disagreed, and 6 percent said they had no opinion” [2].
[1] https://www.government.nl/latest/weblogs/the-work-of-the-min...
[2] https://nltimes.nl/2026/07/12/80-dutch-think-police-authorit...
The Dutch are with 17 million people and all our stuff runs on MS. Even a judge from the international criminal court had an Amazon Echo in her living room. We, on average, don't know and don't care.
All this sovereignty stuff is still quite contained in our nerd bubble I feel.
ASML weighs in on this, they get a key component from the US (a lens iirc). There is no real possibility of complete decoupling in the modern world. You would have to go back to a much less modern world for true decoupling.
Light source, not lens.
as stated in my peer comment made prior to yours
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50091084
Your comparison doesn't hold. ASML depends on components owned by the US, but US companies also depend on components created only by ASML. It is a mutual dependency. It doesn't imply that Dutch police should go around doing the bidding of a foreign government. This is much worse and should be protested.
please see my comment one level deeper in the tree
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50091084
I agree and find my country's behavior unacceptable as well. Some of us are doing what we can under the current regime, but it is not easy and comes with real risk. America is not in a good place right now.
Wow, what a bad take.
The EUV lenses are made by Zeiss in Germany AFAIK. But to even suggest that ASML is dictating US-Dutch diplomacy, two NATO members with similar values and goals, is hilariously off.
Why should the fact that these two entities are NATO members have bearing on whether America can demand Dutch citizens be arrested?
I heard the lens thing from another HN comment, it looks like that person misremembered lens vs light source.
> The light source as a whole is engineered by Cymer, a San Diego company ASML bought in 2013 specifically to control this piece.
https://www.makesureiknowit.com/blog/who-supplies-asml
I'm not suggesting dictation, just that there are deep ties in the global supply chain that make decoupling impossible.
but wow, way to read way too much into this and extrapolate into hyperbole?
I understand that there are complex global supply chains, but my expectation is A) that these are somewhat mutually beneficial relations and B) that their day-to-day operation is somewhat confined to non-governmental spheres.
From my reading of the article, it seems like the U.S. was able to order around the police in Amsterdam without going through a system to check if the Dutch government approves of the action. That’s mostly my confusion.
Headline seems to be a bit strange as the A/I collective has dissolved officially as of September 18. The history of events can be followed here [0]
[0] https://keepitfree.ai/
https://archive.ph/2EsyR
If you remove the paywall and translate it's the A/I group being shut down https://www.state.gov/releases/office-of-the-spokesperson/20...
The Dutch police imaged the drive, gave it to the Americans and gave the server back to XS4ALL which itself appears to have shutdown too I think
Funny how American authorities did not do much about "antifa" and A/I and only acted once it was clear they were going against Zionist interests...
This is shameful and the Dutch should be also ashamed to act as lap dogs.
We still have White Nationalists in khakis and masks rolling up in rented trucks to harass people based on race and creed.
One group threatens property damage, the other people damage.
One of them is considered a terrorist org.
Idk about what the actual objective comparison is, but around me (Capitol Hill, Seattle) many left anarchist types definitely threaten violence. I’m not sure they’d actually follow through and a lot of it is communist revolution larping, but there is probably something to it. Or at the very least they’d do things like hide violent fugitives.
Someone left-aligned (and acting alone, not an official terrorist group) assassinated Charlie Kirk in the US.
A group of left aligned people got in over their heads on a protest action and one shot a police officer.
My too-online left friends worship Luigi IRL, one even recently got a tattoo meant to reference him.
Right wing attacks used to be more common than left aligned ones in the US, but that trend has recently flipped: https://www.csis.org/analysis/left-wing-terrorism-and-politi...
I’m not convinced there are any real terrorist groups operating the way e.g the Weathermen were back in the 70s. But there is some kind of violent left tendency rising, and we could easily be headed that way.
I don't see how there's any basis for concluding that Tyler Robinson is "left-aligned." He seems pretty apolitical. He did it to defend his girlfriend's honor, or something. If you think his dating preferences make him "left-aligned," that seems more revealing of your own leanings
"He seems pretty apolitical" is a crazy thing to say about someone who assassinated someone for political reasons.
The politics are not super clear, if there are any. I think Kirk‘s assassination is much more akin to John Lennon’s murder. It seems nuts to assassinate someone so political for apolitical reasons, but that is exactly what happened to Lennon.
And where do you place the people at the US Capitol on January 6th?
In the same practical bucket. Horseshoe theory [1].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
Figure 4 shows left-wing political violence completely flat with a 1 year decrease in right wing violence as the basis for your “flipped” narrative. Table 1 shows the last 10 years highlighting 152 right wing attacks causing 112 deaths and 35 left wing attacks causing 13 deaths…
You quoted the "trend has recently flipped" but the graph showing the total numbers show right wing violence is still by far the majority, and the 2025 datapoint was incomplete.
> My too-online left friends worship Luigi IRL
And? When you see systemic/societal killing regularly, are we supposed to clutch pearls when one very very rich and powerful guy dies?
> got in over their heads on a protest action
Yeah, two small groups that weren't connected were all made an example of.
> Someone left-aligned
Total conjecture.
The weather underground accidentally killed more of their own than they did in their actual bombings. They went after property. Right wing terror goes after soft targets like kids and worshipers.
Does any of this actually address what I said that rightwing terror groups are going completely unbothered?
There is a lot of misinformation in this post that is parroted from right-wing propaganda channels. I know we are not supposed to engage in ideological battles here on HN, so I am not going to try to convince anyone here. Simply try to fact check any of the individual claims here by a simple web-search, and the whole argument will fall apart on factual ground very quickly.
The whole world does not revolve around Zionism
It shouldn't revolve around Zionism, but more and more it's clear that if you oppose Israeli military offensives as a Westerner, the powers that be will brand you a terrorist and respond as if you were a threat.
A/I is not a terrorist organization, and they only got branded as such when operatives started taking direct action in response to the Genocide that Israel is committing presently. The cited "terrorist" actions so far have been spray-painting military property with anti-genocide messages: Criminal vandalism, sure. But absolutely not terrorism!
The government designation of A/I as a terrorist organization is https://www.state.gov/releases/office-of-the-spokesperson/20... and I have failed to notice anything about Israel, just your standard left-wing anarchy.
That would be like when Google refused to take on military contracts with the US, but then they bent over backwards to do them with Israel. This is also when they changed a ton of internal policies to control employee expression, which started even before those interns broke into TK's office.
But honestly, the A/I situation doesn't look like that. Trump administration has been going after regular Antifa orgs for a long time.
> how American authorities did not do much about "antifa"
What are you talking about, antifa has been a Trump bugbear since his first term.
A/I has been getting its shit seized since 2004 [1]. It started working with GazaWeb around 2024 [2]. It looks more like its PKK work got it in trouble [3].
Given the number of anti-left and anti-European power centers in the White House right now, it’s silly to jump to one’s pet conclusion when it comes to any Europe policy.
[1] https://www.anarchistnews.org/content/autisticiinventati-pre...
[2] https://archive.org/wayback/available?url=gazaweb.noblogs.or...
[3] https://www.anarchistnews.org/content/autisticiinventati-pre...
>To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize
I guess we're ruled by disabled people and our colleagues babies?
I'm ruled by my wife's weight
Pretty sure the police won't come after you for criticizing disabled people or your colleagues' babies.
You can’t criticize whoever rule over you =/= everyone you can’t criticize is ruling over you.
The quote is saying the second thing. But you are definitely allowed to criticize disabled people.
This is a neo-nazi maxim. It sounds reasonable until you realize that the people who say this are hoping you'll arrive at an antisemitic answer. Yes, criticizing "jews" broadly is going to get you a negative reaction. No, that does not mean that "jews rule over you". You're not going to get a great response saying the n-word either, but that doesn't mean Black people are your oppressors.
Same kind of drivel as "there's nothing wrong with defending your own people", until you realize that "your own people" = "the racial majority" and "defending" = "defending against other races". Take a moment to think about what you're saying and why people say it. These aren't universal truths; it only takes a moment to find a counterexample that should prove to you that these aren't worthy of being guiding beliefs.
Anyone living by these kinds of figures of speech isn't a critical thinker, which is pretty much why they exist. Authoritarians benefit when you don't think too hard about how things work.
It is reasonable, I don't care who said it. There's no law in the US against saying the N word, but we have anti-BDS laws.
> but we have anti-BDS laws
And yet criticizing Israel is in the political mainstream in multiple cities…
I’d honestly say it’s more risky to criticize Hamas in some New York circles than it is Israel.
[delayed]
There's nowhere in the entire country you'd face legal consequences for criticizing Hamas. In the UK, maybe, depending how you do it (someone was arrested for posting "fuck Palestine and fuck Hamas").
Non-citizen students were also deported from the US for criticizing Israel. Courts later ruled this unconstitutional since the 1A still applies to them, but it was too late for those students.
> nowhere in the entire country you'd face legal consequences for criticizing Hamas
> Courts later ruled this unconstitutional
Those students faced practical consequences. There are plenty of places in America where expressing any doubts about the moral superiority of Palestinians over Israelis (note: I’m intentionally referring to the people) could get you isolated to the point of facing real consequences. Pretending this isn’t a polarizing debate across the political spectrum is a bit strange.
Honest to God: I'm this close to believing some conspiracy theories...
What makes you think the Dutch government isn’t also occupied by Zionists?
If you claim that, you have to back it up.
Otherwise, assuming there are Zionists everywhere is borderline antisemitic.
It’s 2026; trying to conflate criticism of Israel with antisemitism is not going to work anymore.
Claiming “Zionist infiltration” of the government is not the same thing as criticizing Israel.
Avoiding the question and refusing the back up your claim may also not work.
But it is.
If you mean well, you should know that the specific term “Zionist occupied government” originated as part of an antisemitic conspiracy theory. To avoid confusion you should use different phrasing; something like “the government supports Israel” would express your meaning just as well.
Let's directly quote Bibi to drive this point home since you want to imply antisemitic intent.
"I know what America is. America is a thing you can move very easily, move it in the right direction. They won't get in the way." - Netanyahu
That's an occupation with no creative interpretation necessary.
Again, this phrasing was invented as part of an antisemitic conspiracy theory that has nothing to do with Netanyahu. I don’t intend to imply any antisemitic intent for someone who didn’t know this, as long as they recognize that they’re not trying to be antisemitic and choose one of the many alternative ways to say “I think my government is too friendly towards Israel” going forwards.
In 2026 it's barely concealed racism - an islamophobic trope that doesnt get called out enough.
> assuming there are Zionists everywhere is borderline antisemitic
It’s more just basic conspiracy theorizing. Assuming there is a secret group in charge of world affairs is a lot more comforting than facing the reality that we’re careening towards political anarchy on multiple continents. I don’t think one need be anti-Semitic to subscribe to that system.
> Assuming there is a secret group in charge of world affairs
Ah and it just so happens to be the Jews again, gee what a shocker never heard that before. And no , not antisemitic at all!
> it just so happens to be the Jews again
It’s 2026, every group is secretly in charge. The Russians, the deep state, the Indians. It’s a chaotic world and even the brightest among us are struggling to thread a coherent narrative about it. That leaves lots of room for the less bright to do their thing.
One of these days we as a species really need to learn that Zionism and Semitism are not the same Venn circle.
Not all Zionists are Semitic (or even Jewish) and not all Semites (or even Jews) are Zionists.
Now, it’s obviously extremely easy to conflate Zionism with Semitism, and vice versa, which is a trap both the actual antisemites and those most likely to point and yell “antisemite” seem wont to fall into.
Personally I’d call that borderline antisemitic, since in either case it’s conflating an ethno-nationalist political agenda with both an ethnicity and a nationality that may not subscribe to or support that political agenda at all.
The claim that Jews control or manipulate governments has been an antisemitic claim going back hundreds of years in multiple different variations. So, even if semetic does not equal Jew does not equal Zionist, any claim that one or the other controls a government requires some substance. Otherwise, it fits one of the most recognized template of antisemitic false claims.
The Israeli government does support Zionism and it does have quite a lot of influence with western governments. In the US, Israeli-tied special interest groups donate significant sums of money to our politicians who then vote in ways that benefit Israel. I don't think it's fair to say "Jews control the world" and I can certainly understand the sensitivity of that statement but it's not wrong to say that Israel has significant influence over the foreign policy of a world superpower.
Yeah, a lot of Jews oppose Zionism for religious reasons. It's not fair to lump them together like that.
The word antisemitism itself is pretty funny though, as a thought-terminating cliche.
Can you imagine if any time the news media criticized white people, I could get them cancelled, (or in some countries jailed), for their antiaryanism? Wouldn't that be silly?
Then again, maybe that comparison doesn't work. After all, to see Jews as your equals is antisemitic: https://archive.ph/InK8h
A/I? You mean S/I, right?
No… definitely not. No one who is demonstrably sane means that.
https://archive.ph/ZIugB
https://wallhop.io/https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2026/10/14/poli...
Is there really a sovereign country in Europe that runs its own shit and is not subservient to Uncle Sam?
How much more on the nose can you be than being anti-antifascist? It is obvious the double negative cancels out.
To all the Americans who think authoritarianism is something that happens elsewhere and that they would've stood up and stopped it: What are you waiting for?
Confisquates?
> Confisquates?
Confiscates / seized. Pretty sure a french speaking poster mistranslated. It's "confisquer" in french.
Nope, am Dutch, just can't spell, oops