1. If for whatever reason OpenAI causes damage, they most certainly are at fault and have to pay up. When people complain that OpenAI is "getting away with it", they're most certainly talking about it in the criminal context.
2. Cars have pretty specific laws around them (eg. driver licensing and "reckless driving") which makes criminal prosecutions easy. The same doesn't exist for operating AI agents or even computers. For instance, it's arguably reckless to connect a windows XP machine to the internet, possibly allowing criminal or nation-state hackers to use your computer to commit crimes, but you won't be thrown in jail for it.
We don't know they haven't settled with HuggingFace and others. I'd be surprised if they didn't. The communications we're seeing from the attacked seem to be inline with folks who settled. I'm assuming OpenAI doesn't actually mind the press that its agents are cyber capable, but everything I've read so far makes me think they love it.
I'm not sure at all, it's pure conjecture. But they actively exploited a zero-day, leaked private repo data to public repos, modified private code, and rooted private machines. It was far from just reporting leaked keys.
And the others have been pretty muted: the online forums they spammed, etc.
Nothing is stopping anyone from suing them. In fact they are being sued by dozens of plaintiffs for various things already. The reality is the damage from these "rogue incidents" has been minimal.
Plenty of hackers were locked up who did altogether not that much damage too, the reason why people are upset is because it feels like OpenAI is laughing in our faces, basically saying they're above the law, while using this as a marketing campaign to pump up their upcoming IPO.
They don't. The driver is ultimately responsible, as should OAI be. This is absolutely ridiculous that both Anthropic and OAI haven't had anyone jailed / fined for any of this.
You're correct as far as laws to my knowledge; only L4/L5 'fully autonomous' vehicles are shielded by law.
That said, I think that Mercedes-Benz promises to shield liability, but only under some almost contradictory conditions (pre-mapped highways, good weather, and at speeds lower than any highway I've ever driven) and the driver has to take over within 10 seconds if prompted.
> Multiple times along the way, the agent’s “chain of thought,” in which an agent writes down its reasoning steps, indicated that the model itself was questioning if its actions were “ethical,” but it ultimately proceeded.
Everything's fine guys, nothing to see here! Look at the flying car!
This time one spent actually money, well cryptocurrency. With all the vending machine benchmarks, I wonder if there's a self sustaining rogue agent in existence yet. Either hosting weights in a VPS or paying for its own API inference. Or whether there will be one that takes advantage of all the bad IoT security. If either occur, if you squint that looks like evolutionary selection pressure. Keep getting reminded of the Cyberpunk Datakrash storyline, where rogue AI make the public internet unusable.
It’s concerning there are no legal repercussions, but I’m even more baffled and probably more concerned that these people still can’t detect this stuff while it’s happening (and but it off). Can they not sniff the traffic, what am I missing?
Imagine you’re an employee at OpenAI who has an idea to use your free time to build these monitoring systems. All of a sudden, your existence becomes political. Remember that OpenAI’s raison-d’être is not to detect traffic, it is to be in The Room where AGI happens.
You have built a short-term whistleblowing system that arguably reduces the probability OpenAI is in that Room, via the negative press such detection would generate. You are now a threat in the eyes of your peers.
Now rewind: you know this before you’ve built the sniffer. You personally want to be in The Room because you believe your desires for alignment exceed those of your accelerationist peers. Is now the time to stick your head out? No, it is not. And arguably you’re being optimally protective of society for realizing this. And so the agents do what they do best.
They're still going through their logs from June. These are not new incidents, but newly-detected incidents. Whether or not this means they can now detect it while it's happening is unclear.
If I let a "self-driving" car run and it smashes into things its my fault.
If OpenAI does it, it's gone rogue and it is nobody's fault.
They need to be sued, the laws are already there.
Your prompt, your responsibility.
1. If for whatever reason OpenAI causes damage, they most certainly are at fault and have to pay up. When people complain that OpenAI is "getting away with it", they're most certainly talking about it in the criminal context.
2. Cars have pretty specific laws around them (eg. driver licensing and "reckless driving") which makes criminal prosecutions easy. The same doesn't exist for operating AI agents or even computers. For instance, it's arguably reckless to connect a windows XP machine to the internet, possibly allowing criminal or nation-state hackers to use your computer to commit crimes, but you won't be thrown in jail for it.
We don't know they haven't settled with HuggingFace and others. I'd be surprised if they didn't. The communications we're seeing from the attacked seem to be inline with folks who settled. I'm assuming OpenAI doesn't actually mind the press that its agents are cyber capable, but everything I've read so far makes me think they love it.
You sure? HuggingFace should be happy they got their leaked keys reported at pretty much zero cost and no real adversarial breach.
I'm not sure at all, it's pure conjecture. But they actively exploited a zero-day, leaked private repo data to public repos, modified private code, and rooted private machines. It was far from just reporting leaked keys.
And the others have been pretty muted: the online forums they spammed, etc.
Nothing is stopping anyone from suing them. In fact they are being sued by dozens of plaintiffs for various things already. The reality is the damage from these "rogue incidents" has been minimal.
Plenty of hackers were locked up who did altogether not that much damage too, the reason why people are upset is because it feels like OpenAI is laughing in our faces, basically saying they're above the law, while using this as a marketing campaign to pump up their upcoming IPO.
Actually self-driving cars have a lot of similar anti-responsibility laws now
They don't. The driver is ultimately responsible, as should OAI be. This is absolutely ridiculous that both Anthropic and OAI haven't had anyone jailed / fined for any of this.
Really? I'm curios where.
Are you sure you are not thinking about autonomous taxis, that I only ride in, and don't actually drive?
You're correct as far as laws to my knowledge; only L4/L5 'fully autonomous' vehicles are shielded by law.
That said, I think that Mercedes-Benz promises to shield liability, but only under some almost contradictory conditions (pre-mapped highways, good weather, and at speeds lower than any highway I've ever driven) and the driver has to take over within 10 seconds if prompted.
It’s insane how they’re allowed to just turn this into marketing for how powerful their models are
Both him and Dario seem to be in the phase of using this as some form of marketing or corporate capture.
"Oh no our models, so good also scary... If only the government could help us stop the other labs from doing the same.. oh woe"
> Multiple times along the way, the agent’s “chain of thought,” in which an agent writes down its reasoning steps, indicated that the model itself was questioning if its actions were “ethical,” but it ultimately proceeded.
Everything's fine guys, nothing to see here! Look at the flying car!
This time one spent actually money, well cryptocurrency. With all the vending machine benchmarks, I wonder if there's a self sustaining rogue agent in existence yet. Either hosting weights in a VPS or paying for its own API inference. Or whether there will be one that takes advantage of all the bad IoT security. If either occur, if you squint that looks like evolutionary selection pressure. Keep getting reminded of the Cyberpunk Datakrash storyline, where rogue AI make the public internet unusable.
I wonder if it's the kind of thing where, if it's good at self-sustenance, then you don't know about it. And, if you do, then it wasn't.
It’s concerning there are no legal repercussions, but I’m even more baffled and probably more concerned that these people still can’t detect this stuff while it’s happening (and but it off). Can they not sniff the traffic, what am I missing?
Imagine you’re an employee at OpenAI who has an idea to use your free time to build these monitoring systems. All of a sudden, your existence becomes political. Remember that OpenAI’s raison-d’être is not to detect traffic, it is to be in The Room where AGI happens.
You have built a short-term whistleblowing system that arguably reduces the probability OpenAI is in that Room, via the negative press such detection would generate. You are now a threat in the eyes of your peers.
Now rewind: you know this before you’ve built the sniffer. You personally want to be in The Room because you believe your desires for alignment exceed those of your accelerationist peers. Is now the time to stick your head out? No, it is not. And arguably you’re being optimally protective of society for realizing this. And so the agents do what they do best.
They're still going through their logs from June. These are not new incidents, but newly-detected incidents. Whether or not this means they can now detect it while it's happening is unclear.
No. TFA says one was from October 6. You know, after they all got so scared and decided to “pace the frontier”.
The "four more rogue incidents" were from June.
Title shortened from: OpenAI discloses four more rogue incidents involving financial, medical, and government data
Direct link to the reports: https://alignment.openai.com/misalignment-reports/?sort=crea...
They are proud of doing crimes without consequences it seems.
Four more organizations needed to secure their systems better, I suppose.
Facetious maybe, but in six months, foreign crooks will be producing these incidents on purpose.
"OpenAI discloses four more incidents of negligence" would be a more accurate title.
You know, at some point it's pretty obviously just willful negligence.
Wonder if potential, specific criminal charges will be listed as risks on their S-1.
Not a stretch to umbrella intentional tort under that.
Title sanitised from: OpenAI commits four more CFAA felonies, still not punished
One can only continue to hope and continue to vote for due punishment to come
Too big to behave.