The article is mostly about how this trust is powerful and there are very few details of how it operates or under what circumstances it would take an action. When Anthropic goes public, is that the kind of thing that would need to be disclosed? Would we expect to know all the details of the trust?
> They own no Anthropic equity and don’t share in its profits
Can they own other AI related equities?
I guess there's a lack of details to go on at this point. Finding humans that you'd want as trustees and have also truly no conflicts of interest will be tricky.
friend of mine told me Antropic turned off 200 usd a month subscription, refused to extend and switched to usage base for large cyberop vendor he works for
when this happened PR rate dropped 95% in the first day, thousands devs, managers started to panic and downscaling all AI first intiatives
and cap 500 usd a month token usage . most tokens were burned in the first day of the week.
as management got pissed, M$ people managed to sneak in and sell Copilot with up 600 usd a month token usage per dev …
devs and devops are now the most unhappy about models switch and probably haven’t seen the impact of sucking entire code base in copilot. copilot is too slow for them too. addiction to claude code is clearly present. using personal software licenses and unauthorised soft is strictly forbidden
story is clearly not over yet ..
as for myself, i’m ready to pay up to 1k usd a month … if if … claude gives the edge… but if it becomes commodity im gone next day
very curious what other devs in corporations are experiencing. deep inside cheerleading for 2 tie token ecosystem - full price for corporations and subsidized for small shops and indie
But with a 2T valuation-- if they did raise, let's say, 300B, that's a 15% float, maybe they'd have a chance.
518 B in future compute obligations for the coming decade. 300 B, then 218 B is left. That's 13x their current revenue, not too far from 10x their current revenue.
Perhaps they could survive if they raised 300B. With that they'd only need to increase revenue a little bit, and that's probably possible, what with inflation and all.
The big problem is if there's improvements in AI accelerators that aren't going to be be bought by the companies that the people to whom Anthropic have obligations are likely to buy from. So if Google, AWS or NVIDIA end up not being the leaders in tokens/$, then Anthropic are screwed.
I'm not sure how the total picture ends up if one adds OpenAI to the picture.
Why? Do you think frontier AI will never generate enough profit to justify its costs? The market seems to move on vibes rather than logic. I can imagine one of those company failing and the other seizing the market.
while what you say is true, trillions of dollars and thousands of people invested in something that ultimately leads to a few companies from china doing the same 10x cheaper is a vibe that can go so far
I know that there are a few regulated industries that will go out of their way to not have any prod data ever exposed outside of the United States.
"China can do it cheaper" applies well to your personal projects. It doesn't apply well when you handle things like trade secrets, healthcare, or financial data.
> It doesn't apply well when you handle things like trade secrets, healthcare, or financial data.
OpneAI stole valuable secrets from their customers Buckmaster and Alpöge, why should a company expect them not to do the same with their trade secrets?
huh? assuming you're in america right now, the device you're using to publish that comment has been built in china or had most of it's components anyways, which are from some very trade secret-sensitive companies
> Do you think frontier AI will never generate enough profit to justify its costs?
I don't know, but I'm not sure it matters. Anthropic and OpenAI still have such large market shares only because their services are heavily subsidized. This can't go on forever.
At some point, they will have to stop burning investor money and start hiking prices. At that point, all of their competitors will look even better than they do now. So I don't see how these two companies in particular can generate enough profit to justify their costs.
Correct and before some idiot comes in and says ‘high gross profit margin’
Yeah shut up idiot - they need to raise prices to cover operating expenditures and reinvestment that stays inline with the valuation. If it implodes they’ll have trouble raising money later and they’ll need to lay off people - aka on bad terms.
They and their partners can’t pay off the debt to buy top-of-the-line inference hardware before it becomes obsolete and requires more debt to buy the next generation of top-of-the-line inference hardware.
This cycle will continue every 3-5 years. Given the supply for this hardware can’t keep up with the demand, they’ll be expected to pay more with each cycle.
Contrary to popular belief, plenty of long-term profitable businesses have no moat. It's just that if you use Warren Buffett's investment strategy and want to buy stocks to keep for decades, companies with moats are the surest way of doing that.
The article is mostly about how this trust is powerful and there are very few details of how it operates or under what circumstances it would take an action. When Anthropic goes public, is that the kind of thing that would need to be disclosed? Would we expect to know all the details of the trust?
No.
> They own no Anthropic equity and don’t share in its profits
Can they own other AI related equities?
I guess there's a lack of details to go on at this point. Finding humans that you'd want as trustees and have also truly no conflicts of interest will be tricky.
friend of mine told me Antropic turned off 200 usd a month subscription, refused to extend and switched to usage base for large cyberop vendor he works for
when this happened PR rate dropped 95% in the first day, thousands devs, managers started to panic and downscaling all AI first intiatives and cap 500 usd a month token usage . most tokens were burned in the first day of the week.
as management got pissed, M$ people managed to sneak in and sell Copilot with up 600 usd a month token usage per dev …
devs and devops are now the most unhappy about models switch and probably haven’t seen the impact of sucking entire code base in copilot. copilot is too slow for them too. addiction to claude code is clearly present. using personal software licenses and unauthorised soft is strictly forbidden
story is clearly not over yet ..
as for myself, i’m ready to pay up to 1k usd a month … if if … claude gives the edge… but if it becomes commodity im gone next day
very curious what other devs in corporations are experiencing. deep inside cheerleading for 2 tie token ecosystem - full price for corporations and subsidized for small shops and indie
Never once have heard about Warby Parker being a PBC
Feels like the start of an OpenAI repeat
[flagged]
Ok, but please don't post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News.
Yeah, i calculated something like that earlier.
But with a 2T valuation-- if they did raise, let's say, 300B, that's a 15% float, maybe they'd have a chance.
518 B in future compute obligations for the coming decade. 300 B, then 218 B is left. That's 13x their current revenue, not too far from 10x their current revenue.
Perhaps they could survive if they raised 300B. With that they'd only need to increase revenue a little bit, and that's probably possible, what with inflation and all.
The big problem is if there's improvements in AI accelerators that aren't going to be be bought by the companies that the people to whom Anthropic have obligations are likely to buy from. So if Google, AWS or NVIDIA end up not being the leaders in tokens/$, then Anthropic are screwed.
I'm not sure how the total picture ends up if one adds OpenAI to the picture.
Why? Do you think frontier AI will never generate enough profit to justify its costs? The market seems to move on vibes rather than logic. I can imagine one of those company failing and the other seizing the market.
while what you say is true, trillions of dollars and thousands of people invested in something that ultimately leads to a few companies from china doing the same 10x cheaper is a vibe that can go so far
I know that there are a few regulated industries that will go out of their way to not have any prod data ever exposed outside of the United States.
"China can do it cheaper" applies well to your personal projects. It doesn't apply well when you handle things like trade secrets, healthcare, or financial data.
> It doesn't apply well when you handle things like trade secrets, healthcare, or financial data.
OpneAI stole valuable secrets from their customers Buckmaster and Alpöge, why should a company expect them not to do the same with their trade secrets?
I promise you China can do it cheaper is good enough for many corporates that have neutral views at best on the labs
These are open models, go speak to corporates see what they’re up to
Also the healthcare bit is funny. Go ask the healthcare bigs and their intermediates what they’re doing today, hint it’s India
huh? assuming you're in america right now, the device you're using to publish that comment has been built in china or had most of it's components anyways, which are from some very trade secret-sensitive companies
> Do you think frontier AI will never generate enough profit to justify its costs?
I don't know, but I'm not sure it matters. Anthropic and OpenAI still have such large market shares only because their services are heavily subsidized. This can't go on forever.
At some point, they will have to stop burning investor money and start hiking prices. At that point, all of their competitors will look even better than they do now. So I don't see how these two companies in particular can generate enough profit to justify their costs.
Correct and before some idiot comes in and says ‘high gross profit margin’
Yeah shut up idiot - they need to raise prices to cover operating expenditures and reinvestment that stays inline with the valuation. If it implodes they’ll have trouble raising money later and they’ll need to lay off people - aka on bad terms.
They and their partners can’t pay off the debt to buy top-of-the-line inference hardware before it becomes obsolete and requires more debt to buy the next generation of top-of-the-line inference hardware.
This cycle will continue every 3-5 years. Given the supply for this hardware can’t keep up with the demand, they’ll be expected to pay more with each cycle.
There is no moat
or network effects, or intangible assets (e.g. a brand, patents) or even economies of scale which they own and can leverage.
Contrary to popular belief, plenty of long-term profitable businesses have no moat. It's just that if you use Warren Buffett's investment strategy and want to buy stocks to keep for decades, companies with moats are the surest way of doing that.
Excess returns.
Heard of it? No? Shut up then. You have no idea what you’re talking about.