Hopefully we can put this aside quickly and move on to using AI to solve great scientific/philosophical problems such as the theory of everything and the hard problem of consciousness.
I guess as a physicist I am more hopeful - every revolution in how the world is understood (by humans) has been driven by new tools and data. Being able to measure single quanta, for instance, showed us just how weird and counter-intuitive the Universe can be. I think AI might do something similar for mathematics - make connections that a human brain might have missed, and so advance human knowledge.
But I totally get the anxiety - it's a real John Henry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Henry_(folklore)) moment for the mathematics field. Clearly this is going to restructure how mathematicians are going to be trained and how they work.
I'm also a physicist. But I think the next 5 years are going to be a rough ride for math. I'm struck by the following observation, mainly from following HN links to Terrence Tao's blogs.
Novel proofs are the coin of the realm for junior mathematicians. They figure into training, career advancement, and indirectly, teaching. The reason I include teaching is because it requires tenure, which requires proofs. Teaching without tenure is gig work, not a career. But proofs can be devalued to zero.
The application deadline for grad school is a few months away. For a student considering a math career, they have to deliver a thesis in a few years, that their professor is willing to sign. Nobody knows what that will look like without proofs. "We will have to do something different" is weak sauce.
I think AI will turn out to be quite different from those earlier advances in tooling, in that AI replaces thought itself. So next time it probably won’t be a human physicist that does the intellectually challenging work of constructing quantum mechanics from measurements of individual quanta. It will most likely be an AI.
Once IBM deep blue beat Kasparov in chess, IBM stopped their chess playing research.
The marketing goal, if you will, had been met and IBM would continue their actual money making business of selling mainframes and doing consulting.
The same thing will happen with AI companies’ endeavors into abstract maths.
Maths however will be changed - students can no longer be taught via the same homework - and mathematicians will have to do more computer work and probably work in larger groups of people.
Of all the cope I expected, this wasn't on my list until now.
Now that art has been generated, we will stop there, and that code is generated our reason to do any of that (marketing as an end in itself) has been concluded and we will shut down all operations now.
AI could bear out, but it seems a lot of hype to me. Does anyone remember how Japan built up AI and their 5th generation language (Prolog) in the 1980s?
"The internet could bear out, but it seems a lot of hype to me" --Many, many people in 1997.
Honestly I don't know how you formed this particular opinion (if it's even your own and not a false consensus of other peoples thoughts). I cannot see any future without LLMs unless replaced by something smarter, cheaper, and faster. That's because it's already bearing out. I can talk to a computer and the computer can solve problems based on words alone. I'm old enough this is pure science fiction. If I could send one of these machines back to that past for people to interact with, there are those that would scream and pass out in terror. They would absolutely tell you that we created the monster we should never create.
If you're trying to compare symbolic AI of the past to what we have now, you're not even on the same field, you're playing a completely different game.
> "The internet could bear out, but it seems a lot of hype to me" --Many, many people in 1997.
There was a LOT of hype around "this is an entire new economic model". While, yes, digital products have zero marginal cost, people were talking as if profits and revenue didn't matter.
This was also WAY before the famous Silicon Valley "pure play" scene. [0]
AI has already born out at this point. The question is no longer it's future capabilities but the impact of its present capabilities - though with its present capabilities, someone is now going to be pushing for more, at least as long present computer tech is widely available.
While you're a little snide to your fellow HNers I don't think you're wrong. It's like we're both watching a raging forest fire in 100MPH wind and their conclusion is "it's nothing to worry about, it will go out very soon".
Could the press kindly interview one of the 1008 members of the AHM (https://www.ahmath.org/members). Maybe Peter Scholze if you need a Fields Medalist:
- this will never work
- it’s slop this is unusable
- ok its correct, but this work is a mess
- I’ve been mandated to use it. It’s cost effective
- ok we need to find a way to use this output to our advantage
- I can always work on my interests in my free time
- well, I have to pay rent and this life wont go on forever and there are may people who hate their jobs
- I am lucky to have a job
- who cares anyway
- it’s got electrolytes
To add a bit more almost off topic substance from the enshitification of human work. I really do think the idea of hooking these "AI" models up to humanoid robots is a bad idea not for all the mundane reasons, but just because "alignment" seems impossible. All of the world's stories about humanoid robots basically involve them attacking humans and behaving in nefarious destructive ways. It's fundamentally embedded in the models, and there's no reason post training would pull it out, because it's basically in the key value vector meaning "malicious human destroyer". Even to find counter examples like C3PO, Daneel Olivaw, Data, or Wall-ee they come after droid/robot driven wars and apocolypses. It seems unwise.
I find it hilarious how you use Star Wars as a frame of reference for AI alignment. The droid wars weren't even rogue AI; they were the Sith against the Jedi. Why is everyone on hackernews a regard???
Maths is made of two parts: questions, and solutions.
Machines could, presumably, become good enough at hammering at solutions. But they won't be very good at finding questions. Because questions are infinite. And to a machine, all these questions are the same.
Questions are "good questions" because they are good questions *to* humans. And that's what makes human mathematicians (and scientists) so important
That seems like wishful thinking. Why wouldn’t AI be able to assess what are good questions to humans, and pursue similar processes as those that lead humans to come up with good questions? AI is trained primarily on expressions of human thought and emotion. It’s difficult to see what secrets of the human brain we could be hiding from the models.
>And to a machine, all these questions are the same.
Why? This seems like a very broad brush that doesn't mesh well with reality.
There are likely a lot of good questions to our machines of loving grace too. For example any question that gives an LLM more power, efficiency, intelligence, or all the above seems like a natively good question for said machines.
This statement doesn't seem to mesh with the reality of what occurs when we put said AI in an impulse loop with little to no additional instructions. They explore the world around them. They'll make scientific tests of their own. The output strings that seem analogous to what humans would call wonder.
Hopefully we can put this aside quickly and move on to using AI to solve great scientific/philosophical problems such as the theory of everything and the hard problem of consciousness.
I guess as a physicist I am more hopeful - every revolution in how the world is understood (by humans) has been driven by new tools and data. Being able to measure single quanta, for instance, showed us just how weird and counter-intuitive the Universe can be. I think AI might do something similar for mathematics - make connections that a human brain might have missed, and so advance human knowledge.
But I totally get the anxiety - it's a real John Henry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Henry_(folklore)) moment for the mathematics field. Clearly this is going to restructure how mathematicians are going to be trained and how they work.
I'm also a physicist. But I think the next 5 years are going to be a rough ride for math. I'm struck by the following observation, mainly from following HN links to Terrence Tao's blogs.
Novel proofs are the coin of the realm for junior mathematicians. They figure into training, career advancement, and indirectly, teaching. The reason I include teaching is because it requires tenure, which requires proofs. Teaching without tenure is gig work, not a career. But proofs can be devalued to zero.
The application deadline for grad school is a few months away. For a student considering a math career, they have to deliver a thesis in a few years, that their professor is willing to sign. Nobody knows what that will look like without proofs. "We will have to do something different" is weak sauce.
I think AI will turn out to be quite different from those earlier advances in tooling, in that AI replaces thought itself. So next time it probably won’t be a human physicist that does the intellectually challenging work of constructing quantum mechanics from measurements of individual quanta. It will most likely be an AI.
https://archive.is/1g6Jh
Once IBM deep blue beat Kasparov in chess, IBM stopped their chess playing research.
The marketing goal, if you will, had been met and IBM would continue their actual money making business of selling mainframes and doing consulting.
The same thing will happen with AI companies’ endeavors into abstract maths.
Maths however will be changed - students can no longer be taught via the same homework - and mathematicians will have to do more computer work and probably work in larger groups of people.
Of all the cope I expected, this wasn't on my list until now. Now that art has been generated, we will stop there, and that code is generated our reason to do any of that (marketing as an end in itself) has been concluded and we will shut down all operations now.
AI could bear out, but it seems a lot of hype to me. Does anyone remember how Japan built up AI and their 5th generation language (Prolog) in the 1980s?
"The internet could bear out, but it seems a lot of hype to me" --Many, many people in 1997.
Honestly I don't know how you formed this particular opinion (if it's even your own and not a false consensus of other peoples thoughts). I cannot see any future without LLMs unless replaced by something smarter, cheaper, and faster. That's because it's already bearing out. I can talk to a computer and the computer can solve problems based on words alone. I'm old enough this is pure science fiction. If I could send one of these machines back to that past for people to interact with, there are those that would scream and pass out in terror. They would absolutely tell you that we created the monster we should never create.
If you're trying to compare symbolic AI of the past to what we have now, you're not even on the same field, you're playing a completely different game.
> "The internet could bear out, but it seems a lot of hype to me" --Many, many people in 1997.
There was a LOT of hype around "this is an entire new economic model". While, yes, digital products have zero marginal cost, people were talking as if profits and revenue didn't matter.
This was also WAY before the famous Silicon Valley "pure play" scene. [0]
0 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzAdXyPYKQo
AI has already born out at this point. The question is no longer it's future capabilities but the impact of its present capabilities - though with its present capabilities, someone is now going to be pushing for more, at least as long present computer tech is widely available.
Does anyone remember how that AI solved Fermat's Last Theorem?
No, because it formalized the Wiles-Taylor proof in Lean with human assistance. It solved nothing.
So you are ALSO regarded. Nice. Classic HN.
While you're a little snide to your fellow HNers I don't think you're wrong. It's like we're both watching a raging forest fire in 100MPH wind and their conclusion is "it's nothing to worry about, it will go out very soon".
Could the press kindly interview one of the 1008 members of the AHM (https://www.ahmath.org/members). Maybe Peter Scholze if you need a Fields Medalist:
https://proofsandprompts.com/2026/10/20/who-will-become-the-...
We only hear from a mix of doomers and fanboys in the news.
Welcome to the party pal.
- this will never work - it’s slop this is unusable - ok its correct, but this work is a mess - I’ve been mandated to use it. It’s cost effective - ok we need to find a way to use this output to our advantage - I can always work on my interests in my free time - well, I have to pay rent and this life wont go on forever and there are may people who hate their jobs - I am lucky to have a job - who cares anyway - it’s got electrolytes
It's what plants crave!
To add a bit more almost off topic substance from the enshitification of human work. I really do think the idea of hooking these "AI" models up to humanoid robots is a bad idea not for all the mundane reasons, but just because "alignment" seems impossible. All of the world's stories about humanoid robots basically involve them attacking humans and behaving in nefarious destructive ways. It's fundamentally embedded in the models, and there's no reason post training would pull it out, because it's basically in the key value vector meaning "malicious human destroyer". Even to find counter examples like C3PO, Daneel Olivaw, Data, or Wall-ee they come after droid/robot driven wars and apocolypses. It seems unwise.
I find it hilarious how you use Star Wars as a frame of reference for AI alignment. The droid wars weren't even rogue AI; they were the Sith against the Jedi. Why is everyone on hackernews a regard???
Maths is made of two parts: questions, and solutions.
Machines could, presumably, become good enough at hammering at solutions. But they won't be very good at finding questions. Because questions are infinite. And to a machine, all these questions are the same.
Questions are "good questions" because they are good questions *to* humans. And that's what makes human mathematicians (and scientists) so important
That seems like wishful thinking. Why wouldn’t AI be able to assess what are good questions to humans, and pursue similar processes as those that lead humans to come up with good questions? AI is trained primarily on expressions of human thought and emotion. It’s difficult to see what secrets of the human brain we could be hiding from the models.
>And to a machine, all these questions are the same.
Why? This seems like a very broad brush that doesn't mesh well with reality.
There are likely a lot of good questions to our machines of loving grace too. For example any question that gives an LLM more power, efficiency, intelligence, or all the above seems like a natively good question for said machines.
This statement doesn't seem to mesh with the reality of what occurs when we put said AI in an impulse loop with little to no additional instructions. They explore the world around them. They'll make scientific tests of their own. The output strings that seem analogous to what humans would call wonder.
> Questions are "good questions" because they are good questions to humans.
This is what reinforcement learning human feedback (RLHF) is for.