The way I do it is not to read any reviews or comments until about 6 months later. I have no pressing need to buy produx-x before that. I could also wait years, depending on what it is. Video games for example work well with this, because who cares if you play something 10 years after it comes out? It'll be a fraction of the price, and you'll know for certain if you want it or not.
It might be a sense of personal responsibility, or maybe you purchase mindfully without a "let's try this out" feeling.
Also, there is a wide range of attachments to money people have. I have seen lots of poor people give money to homeless people, and well-off people who use coupons/gift cards and return things in ways that would make me uncomfortable.
Although it is interesting how amazon treats returns and I wonder if seeing how the sausage is made might affects how people view returns. Oh, and things like grocery stores - they have to throw out returns.
The UK inherited the EU 14-day return policy, it's great. Especially nowadays when there are a ton of products that you can't see in person at all, only order online.
Not exactly. You are allowed to open the packaging, inspect it an check that it functions. Otherwise it would be pointless, wouldn't it? The exceptions are sealed games, health products, food, etc.
If you use it in a way that results in visible wear, the seller is allowed to deduct depreciation when you return it; that rarely happens.
In most places around the world, it wasn't and still isn't an option. I grew up in Eastern Europe where you needed to fight tooth and nail to even return a defective one under warranty - when I learned in certain US retailers you can return anything anytime (Target), that blew my mind.
Maybe you're like me and give careful consideration to your purchases for several years, going down the rabbit hole and learn to know about the specs, pros and cons better than any salesperson or even the engineers that made it...
Or like me: Eventually you get used to -and learn to appreciate- nearly anything, and you enjoy that process of discovery?
I switch Android/iOS (and once Windows Mobile) every time I get a new phone (which is when it breaks, usually after 5-6 years), it's always a bit of pain, like now I really miss some iOS features (iPhone mini 12 did not survive the humid jungles of Malaysia), but my Pixel 10 with GrapheneOS has some cool things, like a desktop mode! I'm beginning to appreciate the (in screen) fingerprint reader, but indeed, at first I really missed face-id. Overal Android (at least GrapheneOS) is more like a full computer than iOS. Which has pros and cons. And, hooray for LibrePods ;) (AirPods work without it, but it adds some nice things.)
I also feel a switch to KDE/Konveyor coming up after years of vanilla Gnome...
The unspoken social contract of “if you don’t like it that’s on you” that companies have an incentive to maintain in their customer service experiences
You have empathy for strangers, that's all. I also wouldn't do that, because then some poor innocent person would buy something "new" for full price, and will receive used returned product, either overpaying from their pocket or facing a hassle and waste of time to punt that can down the line, until some innocent buyer #734 in the chain will accept used product for a price of new and won't return it. I consider such consumerism behavior very sociopathic.
Hello, I'm the author of the blog post. I wouldn't say that I 'crave attention' and it was cruel of you to make that assumption. I didn't even post it to HN, somebody else did.
I suffer from quite intense anxiety, so I went back and forth on this decision for days, and writing my thoughts up on my blog was a way for me to clear my head and 'settle' it internally. I shared it with a few friends who had asked about the decision, and then it ended up on here.
I think this interpretation is needlessly judgemental/negative. The author probably intended it is a post-purchase review. This is very common for non-professional tech reviews.
Touche. I suppose it's because they clicked on the comments section where you read....comments. You reply to the the article or other comments - to me it's a conversation, in a way that posting a blog about why someone returned a phone isn't.
Blogging has historically been about someone sharing a thought, an experience, an idea... Which this is. Why gatekeep what can or cannot be blogged about? No one is required to read or like it.
Of course it is. It's the start of conversations like this very one. Or it's a personal blog that other people find and like to read. I don't understand why the author's motivation for writing something matters literally at all, except for a small group of people who really, really get off on X-style judging/hating everything for some reason.
Perhaps some introspection would be more useful/valuable than the sneering bullshit.
Same, I was skeptical, but the moment I unfolded it I realized the screen was a whole different animal. I went from saying I don’t use my phone for productivity to using the larger screen instead of Mac. I don’t feel the I need a real computer for this urge.
Too busy in life to give up the small conveniences of Apple ecosystem, also the glossy foldable screens had really cheap feeling to me, the screen on Duo feels relatively premium.
The stupid thing is, fingerprint unlock inside the screen is a long solved tech. The touch sensors on a modern Samsung or Oppo or Xiaomi are literally instant. Why put it on a button on the side? Just to be different? Or is that a patent thing?
Most underdisplay fingerprint scanners are between mediocre to garbage. Optical scanners are slightly better but considered less secure, ultrasonic ones are a flaming PoS. Both on Samsung S-line, A-line and several Chinese Oneplus phones I've used personally, for years at a time.
Usually they require a very specific state of the fingers, not too clean (don't work after washing and drying hands usually) and not too dirty, not too damaged, not too oily etc. Winter zero degree weather causing invisible condensation or wetness on a screen? Nope. Rain or drizzle? Nada. Also Samsung specifically on their S-line has some obvious software glitches I've confirmed on my phone. For example - in normal conditions, inside apartment, with reasonably clean hands, try to unlock and fail 5 times in a row, input password, then immediately lock the phone and try scanner once again and it will work realiably. It seems that having phone initially in "sleep/hibernation" causes its scaner brains to freeze and glitch, and only fully operational OS causes it to start working properly.
I can totally see why Apple would opt for a better user experience, even if it's not as hyped or flashy on a shop display.
>>Most underdisplay fingerprint scanners are between mediocre to garbage.
I don't think you've used one in the last 10 years based on your comment.
>>Usually they require a very specific state of the fingers, not too clean (don't work after washing and drying hands usually) and not too dirty, not too damaged, not too oily etc. Winter zero degree weather causing invisible condensation or wetness on a screen? Nope. Rain or drizzle? Nada.
Literally never had any of these problems and I unlock my phone 50+ times a day in all conditions. Again, try a modern phone and come back.
> I don't think you've used one in the last 10 years based on your comment.
The oldest phones with underdisplay scanners are from 2018, so 8 years ago max, just saying :) .
My current Oneplus is 3 years old and my current Samsung is also 3 years old. That's not that old by my standards. Maybe something magically improved specifically in the last two years, but I will believe it when I see it. I remember EXACTLY the same phrases in 2020 with new Samsung flagship and newest scanner tech. Then there were EXACTLY the same claims next year in 2021, with yet another Samsung flagship. And fast forward to 2023 and the scanners were still subpar. I don't know, we'll see if they will every improve to the level of standalone scanners.
The author's first two reasons for return are not liking Touch ID or the outer screen. These are two of my favourite aspects. Each to their own. I like the short screen in particular, having always consciously felt that my focus zone was only a fraction of the slab format.
My current Android phone (Pixel 7) has both Face Unlock and an on-screen fingerprint scanner. My previous phone (a OnePlus) had Face Unlock along with a rear-mounted fingerprint reader, which was even better.
Unlocking a phone has never felt as effortless on my iPhones; after all these years, it continues to be a nuisance. Face ID is fine, but you have to hold the phone right in front of your face (and its angle sensitivity is far less forgiving than on my Android phones, where it recognizes you even at an angle--unlike the iPhone, where you practically have to hold it parallel to your face).
Plus, there are countless situations where you cannot or do not want to pick up your phone from a table just to align it with your face. In those cases, I am forced to type in my passcode, whereas an on-screen fingerprint scanner would be a billion times more convenient.
I am mostly baffled that such a "solved," trivial problem in the Android ecosystem continues to be a topic or a matter of "choice" on iPhones.
The excuse is usually that the Android face unlocks are very insecure and easy to trick since they just use a regular camera instead of the IR dot projector. I don't know how true this actually is though.
Same excuse behind not having under-screen fingerprint scanners - supposedly they're a lot easier to trick.
Have you used the one on Duo? It’s in a weird position, essentially always gets in the way on what you’re doing.
Just feels like a compromise on least bad form factor that apple engineers said was feasible placed at the least bad spot that apple UX designers could come up with.
But that least-bad is still just not great, not “apple great”
In my case, I'd like to have both. Face ID works well with a motorcycle helmet, so I don't have to take off my gloves (I can roughly work the phone with the gloves on).
But if I'm in the mountains, wearing sunglasses and a winter coat that hugs my chin and a hat that goes down to my eyebrows, face id struggles. I sometimes don't wear gloves in this situation, so touch ID would be usable.
Perhaps in some theoretical difference but I've never had anyone else get into my phone so... shrug. I trust Apple enough to beleive they would not have shipped (and continued to support) the feature if it was actually a reasonable attack vector.
I contemplated returning my Duo for the first 12 hours. A week later, I wouldn’t dream of it.
In closed form, it’s tiny, especially with keyboard active. Not something I’d want to be using for more than two minutes, let alone reading or watching videos on. This was my main concern, but I soon realized closed form is “pocket mode” since in my pocket is just about the only time the phone is closed. Occasionally I’ll pull it out and, keeping it closed, select some audio, set up a call, or emoji-react, then put it back. The rest of the time the phone is open, whether I’m out or at home, charging or not.
Another problem is what OP mentions, touch ID. It seemingly jumps around like whack-a-mole because of the 8 possible combinations of (open/closed state) x (orientation). There’s even more dimensions to hammer your muscle memory if you also consider which hand you’re using or whether you’re using it with one versus two hands.
I’m gradually getting used to guessing where the Touch ID is though. I do prefer it for wallet payments since the finger is already on the button. I’ve learned to double-click and verify before making any attempt to tap the phone.
The keyboard in open mode is full-width, and that’s not fun to swipe-type on. I think Apple overlooked this since they omitted the iPad setting to reduce the keyboard size. I expect that’s coming eventually.
As for apps, many third-party apps are still using un-responsive layouts like the early iPad days. Some, e.g., Kindle, are outright non-functional when the phone is open. Certain companies will rave about their AI chops yet they’ve been unable to compose a few magic prompt words to target Duo. This will improve in time.
I’ll live with all these trade-offs for the bigger screen. Reading and video were obvious applications, but using maps when mobile was a pleasant surprise. It feels like folding out an old paper map. It’s very readable in the sun too. I prefer reading on electronic display to e-ink due to the responsiveness, so it’s a big win to have an electronic display that doesn’t suffer from glare.
I think preferences will heavily depends on lifestyle. In particular, people who drive a lot won’t see the same benefits. If you spend a lot of time walking or on public transport, it’s a game changer.
> I think preferences will heavily depends on lifestyle.
Exactly this. I held one at a store for about 30 seconds and it became immediately obvious it wouldn’t fit my lifestyle. Baby held in one arm, phone in the other, no go from the start lol.
Still waiting for my Duo so I have no authority really but…
Complaining about app support in the first week of release is silly. It will obviously get better very fast. Apple will force developers to make all new updates work well.
How would they? We've had iPads around for literally forever and there are still iOS apps that start in a pretend phone mode on an iPad. And that's presumably much larger market for apple than the Duo is - why or how would they force developers to support it if they don't want to devote resources to it?
I think a number of hybrid development systems still default to iPhone-only. I'm wondering how LLMs will affect that.
I modified my app to present its menu on the side for Duo. It's a bit of a pain, but an LLM helps. I am still waiting on user feedback from the field. I feel as if it's fairly ugly.
Personally, I'm in no hurry to get one, myself. I have an iPhone 17 Pro and an iPad Mini, which do it for me now. I would like to combine them, but I'm waiting for the inevitable "teething issues" to work out, first.
I think this will be different - you already have to include screenshots specifically for iPhone duo. I can easily see Apple just rejecting iPhone apps that don’t support it properly.
Does anyone actually want these kinds of devices I wonder? Feels like VR headsets all over again - lots of hype from the manufacturers and obscenely expensive devices, and .... no one wants them or even cares?
I go past a Mac store in London frequently. It is usually very very busy ... apart from their VR headset table that has exactly zero people at it. Its become a bit of a joke for me now to see if there is ever a single customer there. Seems like more than 15billion USD well spent!
There are genuine, obvious benefits to having a larger screen. People are limited by the size of what can fit in their pants pockets, and the need to carry at least one device that they can hold up to their ear (i.e. with one hand) for phone calls. The market of people who are willing to carry one device is much larger than the market of people willing to carry multiple devices (i.e. a separate tablet).
The question isn't whether or not there's value to unlock in the foldables category, it's whether manufacturers can get the product right, and overcome durability concerns among a consumer base that is righteously conservative about durability concerns on high-cost devices that they depend on every day.
> Does anyone actually want these kinds of devices I wonder?
When considering questions like these, you can't look at what you want or even what the people you know want. You have to look at the overall statistics.
And given that when the Duo was announced, preorders nearly instantly slipped out by months, I think it's a fair take to say that people want these kinds of devices.
I haven't yet seen one in person, but from what I've seen online, I think it unlikely that I will want one...but I can see what's appealing about them to those who do.
I got a Duo, coming from the Google Pixel Fold and an iPhone 16 Pro Max, and got to say I agree with the Touch ID issue, but mostly because I got so used to Face ID. I keep finding myself looking at the screen and then remembering this one uses Touch ID, not Face ID.
Aside from that, I'm ditching the Pixel Fold and the other iPhone, and going only with the Duo. Love the form factor, got used to it really fast, and reading books and mangas, which is what I use a foldable for, has been a delight.
If only we got a Tachiyomi kind of application for iOS. I'm making it do with Panels[1] and an OPDS-compatible proxy for a manga website[2], but it sucks in comparison to Tachiyomi-like applications.
I don't think it's weird at all to withhold judgement before experiencing something yourself. It is pretty much impossible to know with certainty how you will feel about some things without experiencing them.
More likely Apple factors this used return rate into the pricing. They must have lots of data when new products are released, including with radical changes.
Apple has an average profit margin of nearly 30%. Even with the 10% refurbish discount, and a 10% veteran/student/educator/etc discount, and the cost of refurbishing, they still are likely in the green.
I feel like there are a lot of reviews like this, where people talk about why the phone wasn’t for them, but not the opposite. Why are Duo owners keeping theirs? It’s kind of maddening to only see one dimension of the device.
I love mine. The build quality is excellent. The two screens are useful in different environments or for different tasks - quick glance at a message vs reading a book. The large screen especially is a great replacement for my Kindle. Now all I carry for phone calls, photography, music, reading and work (T3 remote to my Mac mini at home) is this one device. Combined with a good dictation software like Aqua Voice it’s a jack off all trades for me. Not returning it anytime soon :)
I'm keeping mine - its great! Love the short outer screen, the inner screen is nice and large, the titanium build is great, love tent mode and laptop mode. Inner screen is large and its very thin when opened. The speakers are great and the cameras are as well. Idk what other info you need?
An article like "I don't have much of a problem and the folding aspect is cute" doesn't engage in any way and currently there are mostly experimental apps and not yet the absolute killer app.
I need to know that you recognize the irony, here.
Just stop clicking things you're not interested in. It's a self-solving problem if you're not intentionally going out of your way to be a jerk about things for meaningless internet validation.
> I used to think this was a bit boring. I’d get a new phone, restore it from a backup, and then think “what now?” It wasn’t usually appreciably different than my previous phone, and I felt like I missed the pre-iPhone days when I’d switch form factors all the time to try new things: a Sony Ericsson slab phone, a Samsung flip phone, a Nokia with a truly bonkers keypad layout. I even tried a Windows Mobile phone for a spell.
I wonder how many thousands the author has spent chasing the dragon.
Hi, I'm the author of the post. Not as much as you'd think to be honest! Most of the phones I'm talking about were pre-smartphone and cost about £100. Cheap enough that I was buying them with the wages from my weekend job while I was in school, anyway.
I never bought a flagship phone until very recently but I did switch (budget) phones and still remember the excitement of trying brand new phones with very different physical and software features. I also remember recent (Android, in my case) phone upgrades feeling meh after setting up new phone.
The majority of reports of people reporting issues with their Duo are due to the early defects found in the phone [0].
Yet another reason why it makes sense to never buying the first version of an Apple product [1], since previously:
> "But once again as I said before, don't buy the first version of an Apple product."
This was Apple's first foldable iPhone. If the price wasn't enough of a deterrent, then the defects should now be even clearer to wait until Apple fixes them in the next version.
If the extremely low odds of buying a defective one, that has full support from Apple to replace it at no cost (like they should), concerns you, then you should play the lottery more often...
This article made me realize I'd never consider returning a non-defective product, I wonder why that is.
I'm the opposite, for big purchases. I consider the first week or so basically the demo and I'm conscious of the fact that I'm in "returning range".
Hard to do otherwise when everything from reviewers to reddit comments are astroturfed.
The way I do it is not to read any reviews or comments until about 6 months later. I have no pressing need to buy produx-x before that. I could also wait years, depending on what it is. Video games for example work well with this, because who cares if you play something 10 years after it comes out? It'll be a fraction of the price, and you'll know for certain if you want it or not.
It might be a sense of personal responsibility, or maybe you purchase mindfully without a "let's try this out" feeling.
Also, there is a wide range of attachments to money people have. I have seen lots of poor people give money to homeless people, and well-off people who use coupons/gift cards and return things in ways that would make me uncomfortable.
Although it is interesting how amazon treats returns and I wonder if seeing how the sausage is made might affects how people view returns. Oh, and things like grocery stores - they have to throw out returns.
The UK inherited the EU 14-day return policy, it's great. Especially nowadays when there are a ton of products that you can't see in person at all, only order online.
Under the EU policy you can only return unused items.
Not exactly. You are allowed to open the packaging, inspect it an check that it functions. Otherwise it would be pointless, wouldn't it? The exceptions are sealed games, health products, food, etc.
If you use it in a way that results in visible wear, the seller is allowed to deduct depreciation when you return it; that rarely happens.
Yes you are allowed to check that it functions. You are not allowed to use it. TFA is about a product used for considerable time.
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In most places around the world, it wasn't and still isn't an option. I grew up in Eastern Europe where you needed to fight tooth and nail to even return a defective one under warranty - when I learned in certain US retailers you can return anything anytime (Target), that blew my mind.
Maybe you're like me and give careful consideration to your purchases for several years, going down the rabbit hole and learn to know about the specs, pros and cons better than any salesperson or even the engineers that made it...
Or like me: Eventually you get used to -and learn to appreciate- nearly anything, and you enjoy that process of discovery?
I switch Android/iOS (and once Windows Mobile) every time I get a new phone (which is when it breaks, usually after 5-6 years), it's always a bit of pain, like now I really miss some iOS features (iPhone mini 12 did not survive the humid jungles of Malaysia), but my Pixel 10 with GrapheneOS has some cool things, like a desktop mode! I'm beginning to appreciate the (in screen) fingerprint reader, but indeed, at first I really missed face-id. Overal Android (at least GrapheneOS) is more like a full computer than iOS. Which has pros and cons. And, hooray for LibrePods ;) (AirPods work without it, but it adds some nice things.)
I also feel a switch to KDE/Konveyor coming up after years of vanilla Gnome...
I agree. I have never once done it my life. This behavior is wasteful.
I'm pretty sure large companies like apple have a good pipeline to put what you returned in the hands of other customers.
meanwhile, my ability to not waste devices is poor. They tend to grow old in a box somewhere in my house until their utility is zilch.
Its one of those "what poor people think rich people do" things that doesnt actually send the signal they think it sends
The unspoken social contract of “if you don’t like it that’s on you” that companies have an incentive to maintain in their customer service experiences
Maybe you're very amenable, or you have too much money.
Maybe a bit of that, but I think I'm just more careful about what I buy in the first place.
By reading articles like this one, for instance?
You have empathy for strangers, that's all. I also wouldn't do that, because then some poor innocent person would buy something "new" for full price, and will receive used returned product, either overpaying from their pocket or facing a hassle and waste of time to punt that can down the line, until some innocent buyer #734 in the chain will accept used product for a price of new and won't return it. I consider such consumerism behavior very sociopathic.
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Hello, I'm the author of the blog post. I wouldn't say that I 'crave attention' and it was cruel of you to make that assumption. I didn't even post it to HN, somebody else did.
I suffer from quite intense anxiety, so I went back and forth on this decision for days, and writing my thoughts up on my blog was a way for me to clear my head and 'settle' it internally. I shared it with a few friends who had asked about the decision, and then it ended up on here.
Yes you're right, that was horrible thing for me to say. I'm sorry, I was wrong, you didn't deserve that at all.
I think this interpretation is needlessly judgemental/negative. The author probably intended it is a post-purchase review. This is very common for non-professional tech reviews.
Yes, you're right. My comment wasn't fair at all. I'm sorry.
Well that's the other thing - the idea that someone else needs to hear why I returned a phone in 2026 is just.....weird? Is it just hubris? Ego?
Why do you suppose somebody wants to read your comment?
Touche. I suppose it's because they clicked on the comments section where you read....comments. You reply to the the article or other comments - to me it's a conversation, in a way that posting a blog about why someone returned a phone isn't.
Blogging has historically been about someone sharing a thought, an experience, an idea... Which this is. Why gatekeep what can or cannot be blogged about? No one is required to read or like it.
Of course it is. It's the start of conversations like this very one. Or it's a personal blog that other people find and like to read. I don't understand why the author's motivation for writing something matters literally at all, except for a small group of people who really, really get off on X-style judging/hating everything for some reason.
Perhaps some introspection would be more useful/valuable than the sneering bullshit.
I have a Duo:
* TouchID (as implemented on Duo specifically) sucks, really hope next gen has FaceID
* Screen ratios make reels-like addictive content less appealing which is great for me
* Inner screen is a game changer for using Agents on the go, absurdly better than a normal phone
I’m keeping mine, the big screen on the go is a completely different level of productivity.
Same, I was skeptical, but the moment I unfolded it I realized the screen was a whole different animal. I went from saying I don’t use my phone for productivity to using the larger screen instead of Mac. I don’t feel the I need a real computer for this urge.
And the touch screen Mac announced
1. Even rotated you have padding 2. Those videos are compressed really heavily, on the larger screen the quality is unbearable
I will get it soon (queued). I'm banking on the if screen for agentic usage.
I'm really hoping they will add face id next gen. I choose the installment purchase just to get the next phone after 11 months offer.
The watch unlock makes touchID not suck as badly.
Love the device. The inner screen is awesome, glad to finally have a foldable in the Apple ecosystem.
Foldable Androids have been around for years, why didn't you get one before?
Too busy in life to give up the small conveniences of Apple ecosystem, also the glossy foldable screens had really cheap feeling to me, the screen on Duo feels relatively premium.
The stupid thing is, fingerprint unlock inside the screen is a long solved tech. The touch sensors on a modern Samsung or Oppo or Xiaomi are literally instant. Why put it on a button on the side? Just to be different? Or is that a patent thing?
For what its worth, the fp sensor on my laptop is the power button... don't forget to not push down...
Same on a MacBook but Apple added something smart, a short press doesn’t lock the screen or restart the laptop, even if you press too hard
Most underdisplay fingerprint scanners are between mediocre to garbage. Optical scanners are slightly better but considered less secure, ultrasonic ones are a flaming PoS. Both on Samsung S-line, A-line and several Chinese Oneplus phones I've used personally, for years at a time.
Usually they require a very specific state of the fingers, not too clean (don't work after washing and drying hands usually) and not too dirty, not too damaged, not too oily etc. Winter zero degree weather causing invisible condensation or wetness on a screen? Nope. Rain or drizzle? Nada. Also Samsung specifically on their S-line has some obvious software glitches I've confirmed on my phone. For example - in normal conditions, inside apartment, with reasonably clean hands, try to unlock and fail 5 times in a row, input password, then immediately lock the phone and try scanner once again and it will work realiably. It seems that having phone initially in "sleep/hibernation" causes its scaner brains to freeze and glitch, and only fully operational OS causes it to start working properly.
I can totally see why Apple would opt for a better user experience, even if it's not as hyped or flashy on a shop display.
>>Most underdisplay fingerprint scanners are between mediocre to garbage.
I don't think you've used one in the last 10 years based on your comment.
>>Usually they require a very specific state of the fingers, not too clean (don't work after washing and drying hands usually) and not too dirty, not too damaged, not too oily etc. Winter zero degree weather causing invisible condensation or wetness on a screen? Nope. Rain or drizzle? Nada.
Literally never had any of these problems and I unlock my phone 50+ times a day in all conditions. Again, try a modern phone and come back.
> I don't think you've used one in the last 10 years based on your comment.
The oldest phones with underdisplay scanners are from 2018, so 8 years ago max, just saying :) .
My current Oneplus is 3 years old and my current Samsung is also 3 years old. That's not that old by my standards. Maybe something magically improved specifically in the last two years, but I will believe it when I see it. I remember EXACTLY the same phrases in 2020 with new Samsung flagship and newest scanner tech. Then there were EXACTLY the same claims next year in 2021, with yet another Samsung flagship. And fast forward to 2023 and the scanners were still subpar. I don't know, we'll see if they will every improve to the level of standalone scanners.
The author's first two reasons for return are not liking Touch ID or the outer screen. These are two of my favourite aspects. Each to their own. I like the short screen in particular, having always consciously felt that my focus zone was only a fraction of the slab format.
Having both would be even better.
My current Android phone (Pixel 7) has both Face Unlock and an on-screen fingerprint scanner. My previous phone (a OnePlus) had Face Unlock along with a rear-mounted fingerprint reader, which was even better.
Unlocking a phone has never felt as effortless on my iPhones; after all these years, it continues to be a nuisance. Face ID is fine, but you have to hold the phone right in front of your face (and its angle sensitivity is far less forgiving than on my Android phones, where it recognizes you even at an angle--unlike the iPhone, where you practically have to hold it parallel to your face).
Plus, there are countless situations where you cannot or do not want to pick up your phone from a table just to align it with your face. In those cases, I am forced to type in my passcode, whereas an on-screen fingerprint scanner would be a billion times more convenient.
I am mostly baffled that such a "solved," trivial problem in the Android ecosystem continues to be a topic or a matter of "choice" on iPhones.
The excuse is usually that the Android face unlocks are very insecure and easy to trick since they just use a regular camera instead of the IR dot projector. I don't know how true this actually is though.
Same excuse behind not having under-screen fingerprint scanners - supposedly they're a lot easier to trick.
I prefer touch ID over face ID as well.
Have you used the one on Duo? It’s in a weird position, essentially always gets in the way on what you’re doing.
Just feels like a compromise on least bad form factor that apple engineers said was feasible placed at the least bad spot that apple UX designers could come up with.
But that least-bad is still just not great, not “apple great”
I agree it is in a weird position indeed. I honestly think apple should make the move to in display fingerprint scanner now.
May I ask why.
In my case, I'd like to have both. Face ID works well with a motorcycle helmet, so I don't have to take off my gloves (I can roughly work the phone with the gloves on).
But if I'm in the mountains, wearing sunglasses and a winter coat that hugs my chin and a hat that goes down to my eyebrows, face id struggles. I sometimes don't wear gloves in this situation, so touch ID would be usable.
There are settings to make faceid work better. With those enabled I have no problem accessing it with sunglasses and a mask on.
Don't those settings reduce the security? If not, why aren't they enabled by default?
I should add that, in the general case, FaceID works well enough. I'd say it's better than touch id on my iphone 7.
Perhaps in some theoretical difference but I've never had anyone else get into my phone so... shrug. I trust Apple enough to beleive they would not have shipped (and continued to support) the feature if it was actually a reasonable attack vector.
I contemplated returning my Duo for the first 12 hours. A week later, I wouldn’t dream of it.
In closed form, it’s tiny, especially with keyboard active. Not something I’d want to be using for more than two minutes, let alone reading or watching videos on. This was my main concern, but I soon realized closed form is “pocket mode” since in my pocket is just about the only time the phone is closed. Occasionally I’ll pull it out and, keeping it closed, select some audio, set up a call, or emoji-react, then put it back. The rest of the time the phone is open, whether I’m out or at home, charging or not.
Another problem is what OP mentions, touch ID. It seemingly jumps around like whack-a-mole because of the 8 possible combinations of (open/closed state) x (orientation). There’s even more dimensions to hammer your muscle memory if you also consider which hand you’re using or whether you’re using it with one versus two hands.
I’m gradually getting used to guessing where the Touch ID is though. I do prefer it for wallet payments since the finger is already on the button. I’ve learned to double-click and verify before making any attempt to tap the phone.
The keyboard in open mode is full-width, and that’s not fun to swipe-type on. I think Apple overlooked this since they omitted the iPad setting to reduce the keyboard size. I expect that’s coming eventually.
As for apps, many third-party apps are still using un-responsive layouts like the early iPad days. Some, e.g., Kindle, are outright non-functional when the phone is open. Certain companies will rave about their AI chops yet they’ve been unable to compose a few magic prompt words to target Duo. This will improve in time.
I’ll live with all these trade-offs for the bigger screen. Reading and video were obvious applications, but using maps when mobile was a pleasant surprise. It feels like folding out an old paper map. It’s very readable in the sun too. I prefer reading on electronic display to e-ink due to the responsiveness, so it’s a big win to have an electronic display that doesn’t suffer from glare.
I think preferences will heavily depends on lifestyle. In particular, people who drive a lot won’t see the same benefits. If you spend a lot of time walking or on public transport, it’s a game changer.
Very detailed and insightful thanks.
> I think preferences will heavily depends on lifestyle.
Exactly this. I held one at a store for about 30 seconds and it became immediately obvious it wouldn’t fit my lifestyle. Baby held in one arm, phone in the other, no go from the start lol.
Still waiting for my Duo so I have no authority really but…
Complaining about app support in the first week of release is silly. It will obviously get better very fast. Apple will force developers to make all new updates work well.
How would they? We've had iPads around for literally forever and there are still iOS apps that start in a pretend phone mode on an iPad. And that's presumably much larger market for apple than the Duo is - why or how would they force developers to support it if they don't want to devote resources to it?
What apps actually do this though? The latest sdk automatically resizes really well without the developer having to do anything.
If there is an app thay still has the zoom button its extreamly outdated
I think a number of hybrid development systems still default to iPhone-only. I'm wondering how LLMs will affect that.
I modified my app to present its menu on the side for Duo. It's a bit of a pain, but an LLM helps. I am still waiting on user feedback from the field. I feel as if it's fairly ugly.
Personally, I'm in no hurry to get one, myself. I have an iPhone 17 Pro and an iPad Mini, which do it for me now. I would like to combine them, but I'm waiting for the inevitable "teething issues" to work out, first.
The biggest example I can think of is WhatsApp - despite its popularity it still runs an iPhone app in compatibility mode on the iPad.
I think this will be different - you already have to include screenshots specifically for iPhone duo. I can easily see Apple just rejecting iPhone apps that don’t support it properly.
Does anyone actually want these kinds of devices I wonder? Feels like VR headsets all over again - lots of hype from the manufacturers and obscenely expensive devices, and .... no one wants them or even cares?
I go past a Mac store in London frequently. It is usually very very busy ... apart from their VR headset table that has exactly zero people at it. Its become a bit of a joke for me now to see if there is ever a single customer there. Seems like more than 15billion USD well spent!
There are genuine, obvious benefits to having a larger screen. People are limited by the size of what can fit in their pants pockets, and the need to carry at least one device that they can hold up to their ear (i.e. with one hand) for phone calls. The market of people who are willing to carry one device is much larger than the market of people willing to carry multiple devices (i.e. a separate tablet).
The question isn't whether or not there's value to unlock in the foldables category, it's whether manufacturers can get the product right, and overcome durability concerns among a consumer base that is righteously conservative about durability concerns on high-cost devices that they depend on every day.
I think Samsung is on their eighth generation of foldable phone. That would quite a corporate vanity project if unprofitable!
Impossible. Apple only just invented foldable phone.
> Does anyone actually want these kinds of devices I wonder?
When considering questions like these, you can't look at what you want or even what the people you know want. You have to look at the overall statistics.
And given that when the Duo was announced, preorders nearly instantly slipped out by months, I think it's a fair take to say that people want these kinds of devices.
I haven't yet seen one in person, but from what I've seen online, I think it unlikely that I will want one...but I can see what's appealing about them to those who do.
> Does anyone actually want these kinds of devices I wonder?
Yes
I got a Duo, coming from the Google Pixel Fold and an iPhone 16 Pro Max, and got to say I agree with the Touch ID issue, but mostly because I got so used to Face ID. I keep finding myself looking at the screen and then remembering this one uses Touch ID, not Face ID.
Aside from that, I'm ditching the Pixel Fold and the other iPhone, and going only with the Duo. Love the form factor, got used to it really fast, and reading books and mangas, which is what I use a foldable for, has been a delight.
If only we got a Tachiyomi kind of application for iOS. I'm making it do with Panels[1] and an OPDS-compatible proxy for a manga website[2], but it sucks in comparison to Tachiyomi-like applications.
[1]: https://www.panels.app
[2]: Which I still have to open source, but I want to finish the plugin system first.
What a weird post. No Face ID would be a pre-purchase "no go" for many people.
What happens to these returned phones?
I don't think it's weird at all to withhold judgement before experiencing something yourself. It is pretty much impossible to know with certainty how you will feel about some things without experiencing them.
True for foldables and novelty movie popcorn buckets.
I believe that they are sold as refurbished. Apple loses some money on it, I would assume.
More likely Apple factors this used return rate into the pricing. They must have lots of data when new products are released, including with radical changes.
Apple has an average profit margin of nearly 30%. Even with the 10% refurbish discount, and a 10% veteran/student/educator/etc discount, and the cost of refurbishing, they still are likely in the green.
The "which screen do I use this time" decision is what I suffer with the most.
I feel like there are a lot of reviews like this, where people talk about why the phone wasn’t for them, but not the opposite. Why are Duo owners keeping theirs? It’s kind of maddening to only see one dimension of the device.
I love mine. The build quality is excellent. The two screens are useful in different environments or for different tasks - quick glance at a message vs reading a book. The large screen especially is a great replacement for my Kindle. Now all I carry for phone calls, photography, music, reading and work (T3 remote to my Mac mini at home) is this one device. Combined with a good dictation software like Aqua Voice it’s a jack off all trades for me. Not returning it anytime soon :)
> it’s a jack off all trades for me. Not returning it anytime soon :)
Lovely Freudian slip there.
I'm keeping mine - its great! Love the short outer screen, the inner screen is nice and large, the titanium build is great, love tent mode and laptop mode. Inner screen is large and its very thin when opened. The speakers are great and the cameras are as well. Idk what other info you need?
An article like "I don't have much of a problem and the folding aspect is cute" doesn't engage in any way and currently there are mostly experimental apps and not yet the absolute killer app.
Maybe no one is keeping them?
Why is there no FaceId? Is the camera too low-res?
>I’m not convinced that most apps will adapt well to the Duo
seems like the crux of the matter right there.
Next year Apple will be culling apps that update without Duo adaptation
Amazing what people spend time writing about. I returned a toaster oven a couple weeks ago.
> Amazing what people spend time writing about.
I need to know that you recognize the irony, here.
Just stop clicking things you're not interested in. It's a self-solving problem if you're not intentionally going out of your way to be a jerk about things for meaningless internet validation.
> I used to think this was a bit boring. I’d get a new phone, restore it from a backup, and then think “what now?” It wasn’t usually appreciably different than my previous phone, and I felt like I missed the pre-iPhone days when I’d switch form factors all the time to try new things: a Sony Ericsson slab phone, a Samsung flip phone, a Nokia with a truly bonkers keypad layout. I even tried a Windows Mobile phone for a spell.
I wonder how many thousands the author has spent chasing the dragon.
I just realized I can't comprehend this scenario. My new phones are always appreciably better because they have intact screens.
Hi, I'm the author of the post. Not as much as you'd think to be honest! Most of the phones I'm talking about were pre-smartphone and cost about £100. Cheap enough that I was buying them with the wages from my weekend job while I was in school, anyway.
There is always at least one guy in the room flashing newest phone. Maybe author is one of them.
The guy's business is a mobile app. Difficult to blame him to know what his app feels like without ever touching one.
peak phone form factor was over 20 years ago now, the dragon has been one long bad trip ever since
I never bought a flagship phone until very recently but I did switch (budget) phones and still remember the excitement of trying brand new phones with very different physical and software features. I also remember recent (Android, in my case) phone upgrades feeling meh after setting up new phone.
It's a first gen product.
Author should have known better. They got what they deserved.
The majority of reports of people reporting issues with their Duo are due to the early defects found in the phone [0].
Yet another reason why it makes sense to never buying the first version of an Apple product [1], since previously:
> "But once again as I said before, don't buy the first version of an Apple product."
This was Apple's first foldable iPhone. If the price wasn't enough of a deterrent, then the defects should now be even clearer to wait until Apple fixes them in the next version.
[0] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/oct/26/iphone-du...
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49631052
If the extremely low odds of buying a defective one, that has full support from Apple to replace it at no cost (like they should), concerns you, then you should play the lottery more often...
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